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Announcer: Exactly two weeks from tonight,

Canadians will decide who to invite or invite back

to this place --

Parliament Hill, The House of Commons.

♪ ♪

For 27 days, the six main party leaders have been travelling

the country, making pitches and promises.

Tonight, they will defend and deconstruct their ideas live.

Liberal leader Justin Trudeau.

Conservative leader Andrew Scheer.

NDP's Jagmeet Singh.

Elizabeth May of the Green Party.

Bloc Quebecois leader Yves-Francois Blanchet.

And Maxime Bernier of the People's Party.

Their goal: to convince you to give their party your vote.

The moderators are five of the country's most respected

political journalists.

The setting is one of Canada's most remarkable institutions,

the Museum of History in Gatineau, Québec.

This is the debate. Here are your leaders.


Lisa LaFlamme: Welcome to the 2019 Leaders' Debate .

I'm Lisa LaFlamme from CTV News,

and I am one of the moderators tonight.

Our audience is made up mostly of undecided voters,

gathered here in the round,

so they're right at the heart of this important night.

One note, however, we have asked them

to hold back their applause throughout the debate

so we can keep things moving.

And just a couple more things to note

before we get started.

We're going to tackle five major themes tonight

based on the questions Canadian voters want

asked and debated.

There were more than eight thousand.

So the themes tonight reflect those questions.

The leaders will answer them based on an order

selected in a random draw.

We all want a meaningful debate tonight.

Viewers want answers so the leaders have all agreed

to respect the time they are allowed tonight.

And, believe me, we will all make sure they do.

Our first theme is leadership in Canada and the world,

and our first question is from Reagan Li,

right here in the audience. Reagan.

Good evening, leaders.


Many Canadians have felt the implications of a divided world

more so than 2015, from U.S. Protectionism, to Brexit,

to our growing tensions with China.

As Prime Minister, how would you effectively defend

both the interests and values of Canadians on the world stage?

Thank you.

Lisa: Reagan, thank you for that.

Mr. Trudeau, you are first to respond tonight.

You have 45 seconds.

Mr. Trudeau: Thank you, Reagan, for being here tonight

and thank you, all, for joining us in this important moment

to talk about the future of our country

and compare and contrast the various plans that we have.

We know we live in a very challenging time right now.

From protectionism to fear-based politics,

to the transformative technological change

people are facing.

We need to make sure that Canadians are equipped and

tooled to be able to succeed in an uncertain world.

And that's why over the past four years, we've invested

directly in Canadians.

Helped people be optimistic about their future,

have the tools to succeed, and the tools to see

their kids succeed.

We know the environment is a massive and pressing challenge,

and building a stronger economy for the future means protecting

the environment for the future as well.

These are the things we're going to be talking about tonight.

Lisa: Mr. Trudeau, thank you for that.

Mr. Bernier, your opportunity to respond.

Maxime Bernier: Thank you.

We are the People's Party, and we put Canada first.

The other leaders on this stage are global leaders.

They spend your money to buy a seat at U.N. Security Council

and also they are giving your money to other countries

to fight climate change in Asia and build

roads in Africa.

The U.N. is a dysfunctional organization,

and we must be able to fight for our country.

Actually, we are the only party that will have

foreign policies that is based on our security

and prosperity for our country.

Lisa: Mr. Bernier, thank you.

The next opportunity for Mr. Singh to respond.

Mr. Singh: Thank you very much, Reagan, for your question.

I know it's tough to ask questions

in front of a big crowd, so thanks for doing that.

Thanks to Canada for joining and taking part in this discussion.

To me, leadership is about who you're fighting for,

the choices you make.

and whether you're doing what is right for people.

And whether it comes to international affairs,

standing up to Trump, making sure we fight to build

better trade agreements that actually put Canadians first.

For me, the question really comes down to,

do you have the courage to stand up to the powerful

and wealthy interests, the corporations that are having

too much influence over Canada? And I've seen so far in Ottawa,

whether it's Liberal or Conservative governments,

they haven't had the courage to stand up

and fight for people.

We're different. We're in it for you.

I don't work for the rich and powerful, I work for the people.

Lisa: Mr. Singh, thank you.

Mr. Scheer, your opportunity to respond.

Mr. Scheer: Thank you very much.

And, of course, I will always stand up for Canada

and Canadians' interests and promote free trade

and defend our interests all around the world,

but Justin Trudeau only pretends to stand up for Canada.

He's very good at pretending things.

He can't even remember how many times he put blackface on

because the fact of the matter is he's always wearing a mask.

He puts on a reconciliation mask and then fires

the Attorney General,

the first one of Indigenous background.

He puts on a feminist mask, and then fires two strong

female MPs for not going along with his corruption.

He puts on a middle-class mask and then raises taxes

on middle-class Canadians.

Mr. Trudeau, you're a phoney, and a you're fraud

and you do not deserve to govern this country.

Lisa: There will be an opportunity later during the

open debate to defend each other.

First of all, Ms. May, if you'd like to

answer Reagan's question.

Ms. May: I would actually like to answer Reagan's question,

in contrast to what we just heard.

But I want to start by acknowledging that we're on

the traditional territory of the Algonquin people.

So to them, miigwech.

Canada's role in the world is an amiable one.

We have a historic reputation for being an honest broker.

For being a country that stands up for multilateralism.

We have a commitment as a nation to meet the

sustainable development goals.

Which means our future as a world is built on ending

poverty and encouraging the education of women and girls.

That's a cornerstone.

On top that, we really need to renegotiate the World Trade

Organization and make it an organization that

promotes climate action.

We need a World Trade and Climate Organization.

We need to support the rule of law and human rights

around the world because we are world leaders.

Lisa: Ms. May, thank you.

Again, the question, how would you

as prime minister protect Canadian interests and values

on this changing world stage?

Mr. Blanchet?

Mr. Blanchet: Prime Minister is a bit unlikely,

however, first, good evening, everybody,

and thank you for having me on behalf of the Bloc Quebecois.

Having leadership or showing leadership sometimes mean

not making mistakes.

Arresting the Chief Financial Officer of Huawei might have

been a big mistake for which farmers, or those who import

our beef, might have paid the price.

When you're facing powerful folk like China,

you don't try to show biceps if you have only tiny biceps.

And this is something that has to be learned.

And we would support somebody with real leadership,

not making mistakes.

Lisa: Mr. Blanchet, thank you for that.

Continuing with our theme leadership in Canada

and the world, it's now my opportunity to ask a question

on behalf of Canadians.

Again, to a leader chosen by a random draw.

So this question is for People's Party leader Maxime Bernier.

Every other leader will then have the opportunity

to debate him, but Mr. Bernier, you like

to tweet, so let me read some of your tweets back to you.

You called diversity in Canada 'a cult and

extreme multiculturalism'.

You've used the words 'ghetto' and 'tribes'

to describe newcomers whom you say bring distrust

and potential violence.

On Greta Thunberg,

the 16-year-old climate change activist,

you've called her "clearly mentally unstable."

Are these the words of someone with the character and integrity

to lead all Canadians and represent us

on the world stage?

Mr. Bernier: To your question,

you must tell the truth to Canadians

if you want to be the leader of this country.

And what I'm saying about extreme multiculturalism,

it is not the way to build this country.

Yes, this country is a diverse country, and we must be

proud of that.

But we don't need a legislation like the Multiculturalism Act

to tell us who we are.

We are a diverse country, and we are proud of that.

What I'm saying because it's in line with the immigration,

I'm saying we must have fewer immigrants in this country

to be sure for these people to participate in our society.

So it is a great country, but it's time to have a discussion

about the immigration.

We don't want our country to be like other countries

in Europe, where they have huge difficulty

to integrate their immigrants.

And I'm a proud Canadian, and that's why I love

this country and I'm the only leader on this stage

who wants to have a discussion about the level of immigration.

Lisa: So we're definitely going to have a lively debate tonight

because now it is Mr. Singh's opportunity to debate

Mr. Bernier on that very question,

the temperament required for a good leader.

Mr. Singh: Mr. Bernier, after hearing what was just said,

you could have said 'hey, man I messed up'.

Because those are pretty horrible tweets that you made.

And, really, for me, it should come as no surprise to you,

I believe a leader is not someone who should try

to divide people or to pit people against each other.

A true leader who tries to build bridges,

bringing people together.

That's what a leader does.

A leader works for the people who need help.

Not helping those at the top as we've seen the government

in Ottawa doing far too long.

They've been working to make life easier for the


They give massive corporate tax cuts.

Billions of dollars go towards them.

We see offshore tax havens continue.

This is not the way to build a country.

The way to build a future is --

Mr. Bernier: You won't be able to help Canadians

with your Socialist policy. It will hurt everybody.

Mr. Singh: What you're going to do is not going

to help anybody.

[inaudible; multiple speakers]

Mr. Bernier: You must believe in people.

Mr. Singh: What you're saying is not helpful.

Lisa: I'm just going to remind everyone,

this is a debate and the viewers do have a difficult

time even hearing anything if you're talking

over each other.

So this is a portion where the leaders can

debate Mr. Bernier, and it is now the opportunity of

Mr. Scheer to debate Mr. Bernier on the question of leadership.

Mr. Scheer: What Mr. Bernier fails to understand is that

you can absolutely be proud of Canada's history,

you can be proud of our identity, you can be proud

of the things we've done and accomplished in the world

while at the same time welcoming people

from all around the world.

That is something that has made Canada strong.

People come to Canada because of our freedom.

Our freedom to --

Mr. Bernier: You're right.

That's why I want people to share the Canadian values.

Equality between men and woman, separation of state, and --

Mr. Scheer: Mr. Bernier, you have changed from someone

who used to believe --

Mr. Bernier: Like they did in the past --

Lisa: We'll let Mr. Scheer answer the question.

Mr. Scheer: -- who used to believe in an immigration

system that was fair, orderly and compassionate, and now

you are making your policy based on trying to get likes

and re-tweets from the darkest parts of Twitter.

We can be a country that celebrates contribution

of people from all around the world.

Mr. Bernier: I want to celebrate what unites us.

Mr. Scheer: You can do that.

You can do that without insulting people

who have come to this country.

That is the difference between Mr. Bernier and myself

on this issue.

We believe, we believe in making Canada stronger

by welcoming people, adding it to our country

and celebrating the things that have made us great as a nation.

Lisa: Now we're going to hear from Ms. May and Mr. Bernier

on the same question.

Ms. May: I understand the question, Lisa.

It was also about the characteristics of leadership.

Let me just say up front, I think leadership is service.

I think the things that make a good prime minister is

recognizing that we're public servants.

We haven't won some kind of lotto.

We don't get to lord it over everybody.

We're here as your employee, and we want to work.

I had a little quibble with our introduction tonight saying

saying 'who will get invited back'?

It's not to be invited to go to Parliament.

It's to sign up to work.

And to be of public service I believe in service leadership.

That said, I find the things Maxime Bernier has said

to be completely appalling.

He knows I feel that way about the things he says in the House.

We used to sit together.

And, generally, when he said anything, I'd have to put

my head in my hands because it was so horrific.

Mr. Bernier: I appreciate you, but I don't share

your Socialist policy, because we won't be able to create

any wealth with your policies.

You have the same kind of policies in Socialist countries

like Venezuela.

That won't create any wealth. You must admit that.

Ms. May: No, the climate crisis is the single biggest

economic opportunity in a generation.

Mr. Bernier: That's not responsible.

Ms. May: And supporting immigration is what

we need for this economy.

I'm proud of the fact the European Greens are the

only party that is pro-immigration, and so are we.

Lisa: Thank you, Ms. May.

Now it is Mr. Blanchet's opportunity to debate

with Mr. Bernier.

Mr. Blanchet: How many seconds will you leave me

before you jump in?

Somebody invoking the truth should not be somebody

denying climate change.

And the use of socialism seems to come

a little bit too easy.

Mr. Bernier: I don't deny --

Mr. Blanchet: Oh, 10 seconds.


Lisa: We were worried they wouldn't pay attention.

Mr. Blanchet: Immigration is not that much

a matter of number. It's a matter of resources.

We invest in it in order to have those persons

welcome as well in Canada as they are in Québec

with our desire for them to share our language,

to share some of our values.

And if we do have enough resources invested in that,

this is workable.

And you do not do it by saying or sending the message

that they are not welcome. Here in Canada or in Quebec.

Mr. Bernier: Everybody is welcome in this country.

And, you know, 49 percent of our population believe

that we must have fewer immigrants.

They are not racist. They are not radical.

So what you are saying, because I'm in line with the majority

of our population, that I'm supposed to be a radical.

No, we have the right in this country --

Mr. Blanchet: Did anybody tell you

that your ancestors were immigrants also?

We all are immigrants.

Mr. Bernier: Absolutely.

And we are proud. We are proud Canadians.

Lisa: Okay, and the final debate on this subject goes

to Mr. Trudeau to Mr. Bernier.

Again, the temperament required for the leader.

Mr. Trudeau: I think it's important to recognize

we're in a world right now where these discussions,

this polarization, this fear of the other has become

easy currency for politicians who do want to strike up

uncertainty in peoples' hearts and lift those anxieties

and try to get people to vote against things.

Unfortunately, Mr. Bernier on this stage is playing that role

of trying to make people more fearful about the migrations

that are happening in the world and the opportunities around

globalization and our ability to continue to redefine

every single day what it is to be Canadian,

what it means to be Canadian.

And, yes, it will evolve. It will transform itself

as we take leadership, as we move forward.

Mr. Bernier: You always want to celebrate --

you always want to celebrate our diversity.

We must celebrate who we are. And I'm proud Canadian like you.

And, you know, we build this country together,

and we want this country to be like that in 25 years.

We love this country and it's sad because I want to have

a discussion about immigration, that I'm radical.

Mr. Trudeau: Your role on this stage tonight seems to be

to say publicly what Mr. Scheer thinks privately.

Mr. Bernier: Only 6 percent of Canadians want more immigration.

Only 6 percent.

So when you don't want to have a debate about that,

you're not in line with the population.

Let's just have an honest debate on that subject.

Lisa: Okay, and on that, we want to hear from

another Canadian tonight.

There are obviously so many layers to the issue

of leadership.

So this question is coming from Susan Fernando

who asks her question from Calgary, again.

Hi, I'm Susan Fernando in Calgary.

More often than not, the provincial governments

and federal government are on different wave lengths,

no matter what the political party.

Cooperation is key when it comes to issues of pensions,

workers' rights, to education and healthcare.

As prime minister, how would you demonstrate strong leadership

when working with the provinces and territories?

Lisa: Okay, thank you, Susan Fernando from Calgary.

Again, based on a random draw, this goes to Mr. Bernier first

and then every other leader will have the chance to answer.

Mr. Bernier.

Mr. Bernier: First of all, I will respect the Constitution.

I will respect provinces, and that's very important.

And I won't interfere in provincial jurisdiction.

I won't interfere in healthcare because it is

a provincial jurisdiction.

And, you know, we cannot in Ottawa solve

the challenges that we're having for healthcare.

And what we can do, we can transfer the money

to the provinces and what I will do,

I will let provinces be able to deal with

healthcare and education. That's our Constitution.

We'll transfer the GST so provinces will have the

money to deal with that.

And they will be able to answer to your challenges.

Lisa: Mr. Bernier, thank you.

It's now Mr. Singh's opportunity to respond to Susan's question.

Mr. Singh: Thank you.

I want to thank Susan for the question.

Really, she's touched on a lot of concerns that Canadians have.

Things are getting harder than ever before.

And she touched on a whole host of issues --

pensions and healthcare.

I want to single in on healthcare.

To me, that's one of the biggest concerns I hear about

when I meet with people across this country.

And I think of the people that I meet, the young boy that I met

that has a chronic illness and has to pay for --

his family has to pay for medication and injections

and blood work.

But he told me he's not worried about the illness,

but he is worried about being a burden

to his mom and dad.

So that young person Mr. Trudeau is saying you're not worth

universal pharmacare.

The big pharmacare companies, big pharmaceuticals are

more important.

I want to say that to young person, with a New Democratic

government will bring universal pharmacare for all.

You would use your health card, not your credit card

for medication.

Lisa: Mr. Singh, thank you.

Mr. Scheer, it's your opportunity now.

Mr. Scheer: Well, Conservatives have always recognized

the importance of working with provinces.

We respect provincial jurisdiction, but we also

understand it will take federal leadership to get certain

things done.

Like inter-provincial free trade.

Something that Mr. Trudeau has failed to accomplish.

But one thing I can promise voters across the country is

that premiers won't have to take a Conservative government

to court to fight things like the carbon tax.

And Mr. Trudeau has imposed his carbon tax on provinces that

don't want to go along with his high-cost scheme.

This carbon tax is increasing the cost of everyday essentials,

like gasoline, home heating and groceries.

And it will only go up after the next election.

He is refusing to tell Canadians how high his carbon tax will go

if he's re-elected.

The Conservative government under my leadership will

scrap the carbon tax.

Lisa: Mr. Scheer, thank you. Ms. May.

Ms. May: Thank you, Susan, for the question.

It's very important and, as Greens, cooperation is

in our DNA.

None of the problems we solve are going -- and we face -- are

are going to be solved if we keep arguing and fighting

with each another.

Whether it's within Parliament in our different parties,

or between the federal government, the provinces

and territories.

The Greens are proposing a re-invigorated form

of federalism.

Modelled after what has been done in Australia,

we want a council of Canadian governments.

So federal government, provincial, territorial.

Municipal and the local orders of government need a seat

at the table.

So, too, do Indigenous leadership.

First Nations, Metis and Inuit around the same table

finding common ground on urgent issues like healthcare,

on the climate emergency and working together

in the public interests.

Lisa: Ms. May, thank you. Mr. Blanchet, your opportunity.

Mr. Blanchet: Thank you.

If I remember well, I seen a study today saying this

campaign is not about federal issues, but about provincial

and Québec issues. This is not a surprise.

If you want cooperation with provinces or Québec,

you need to respect the jurisdiction.

And something that you have to stop doing -- and this is

one of the demands of the government of Québec

on many issues -- is giving a hand to this,

our money being held hostage by the federal government

and giving back to us with conditions.

The money has to be given to provinces in their own fields

of jurisdiction should be given back without conditions.

Lisa: Mr. Blanchet, thank you.

Mr. Trudeau, your opportunity now.

Mr. Trudeau: In 10 years of Stephen Harper's government

he chose to stop meeting with premiers in

First Minister's meetings.

So we restarted that when we took office in 2015.

We were able to strengthen the CPP for a generation.

We were able to sign historic health accords with

massive investments in home care and in mental health.

We were able to invest in infrastructure like housing

and public transit across the country, and we continued

to work with provinces on renegotiating a NAFTA

that had everyone playing on one Team Canada.

Yes, with certain provinces right now we're fighting

on the defining issue of our time.

Jason Kenney and Doug Ford and other Conservative premiers

don't want to do anything on climate change.

We need a government in Ottawa that is going to fight them and

fight for Canadians on climate change,

and that's exactly what we're going to do.

Lisa: We will have the open debate coming up very shortly.

We are going to switch gears now, though, and give a leader

a chance to ask any other leader a question

on any topic they choose.

Again, the order of this was chosen by random draw.

The first leader this time is NDP leader Jagmeet Singh.

Mr. Singh, you have 30 seconds.

Mr. Singh: Thank you. My question is to Mr. Trudeau.

You talk often about how Conservatives cut taxes

for the wealthy and cut education and healthcare

and other services.

I agree with you and I've heard you say this often.

So my question is, you criticize Mr. Harper on his

climate targets but you failed to achieve them.

You criticized Mr. Harper on the fact that he cut

healthcare funding. You also cut them.

You criticized Mr. Harper and Conservatives on giving

billions to billionaires and corporations.

You gave $14 billion more.

My question is this, why do you keep letting down

the people that voted for you?

Mr. Trudeau: First thing we did was cut taxes for

the middle class and raise them for the wealthiest one percent.

And on climate change,

after 10 years of Stephen Harper doing nothing,

in just four years we've reached three quarters of the way

to our 2030 targets which we will meet and surpass.

But we know that's not enough.

We're going to continue to do more.

Like planting two billion trees, like moving forward on giving

money up-front so people can retrofit their homes,

on making Canada net zero by 2050.

We know how important it is to move forward and right now,

Mr. Scheer has promised that the first thing he would do is

to rip up the only real plan to fight climate change

that Canada has ever had.

These are the things we're going to be moving forward on

because Canadians expect us to.

We lifted 900,000 people out of poverty with our

investments in families, with the Canada Child Benefit.

And things that, actually, Mr. Scheer and Mr. Singh,

the NDP voted against.

We will continue to invest in families because it's creating

jobs and helping people out of poverty, because that's what

Canadians expect.

And that's what we will continue to do.

Lisa: Now the leaders have an opportunity to have the

open debate on this question.

It's for 4 minutes.

Mr. Singh, you may begin.

Mr. Singh: Thank you.

I just wanted to say, I mean, we look at

the track record of this government.

In reality, Statistics Canada points out in 2017,

the wealthiest actually paid less in tax

and gained more in wealth.

And when we look at one of the biggest problems that

we're faced with as a country is offshore tax havens.

Now not only did your finance minister use

offshore tax havens, but also the president

of the Treasury Board.

She also used offshore tax havens.

So how can you tell Canadians, we don't have the money

to fund things like universal pharmacare when

your top two cabinet ministers don't pay their fair share?

Mr. Trudeau: Mr. Scheer, you might remember that --

Mr. Singh, you might remember --

Mr. Singh: I'm very, very different than Mr. Scheer.

Mr. Trudeau: You look so alike it's difficult for me.

We had a huge fight with the wealthiest Canadians

and the Conservatives when we closed tax loopholes

that Mr. Scheer is going to re-open and give tax breaks

worth $50,000 to the wealthiest Canadians.

Mr. Scheer: Let's dive into that.

Mr. Trudeau: We're going to keep moving forward in a

way that invests in Canadians.

And that's what we're going to do.

Lisa: Mr. Trudeau will give Mr. Scheer an opportunity

to respond.

Mr. Scheer: You called small business owners 'tax cheats'.

You called entrepreneurs who've created jobs and opportunities

in our society 'tax cheats', all the while protecting your

trust fund and those of your billionaire friends.

What we are doing is lowering taxes for all Canadians.

We've got a universal tax cut that will lower

the first bracket, that will --

[inaudible; multiple speakers]

Mr. Scheer: We're going to bring in --

Lisa: Mr. Bernier, would you like to interject?

Mr. Bernier: For sure.

What they are doing, they are spending, spending,

and spending.

Mr. Scheer: Tax cuts are not spending.

Mr. Bernier: Everybody here on this stage are spending

more money.

And, you know, you cannot create wealth when the government is

spending money.

You must have the right policies for the entrepreneur actually.

We want the private sector to be able to invest.

Mr. Scheer: That's why we're going to undo these tax hikes.

Mr. Bernier: No, you won't balance the budget.

[inaudible; multiple speakers]

Lisa: Ms. May would like the opportunity.

Ms. May: Thank you.

At the beginning of the segment, Mr. Singh pointed out

that Mr. Trudeau had not changed the climate targets

from those of Mr. Harper.

It needs to be said very clearly -- and I'm so disappointed,

because I believed the Liberals in 2015 that they would go

with science-based, evidence-based policies.

But the target that Mr. Trudeau is saying he will hit

for 2030 is a target for losing the fight against

climate change because it ignores the science,

it ignores the IPCC advice.

On this stage tonight, the Green Party is the only party

with a plan, Mission Possible, that will actually

protect us so that we can end carbon neutrality by 2050.

[inaudible; multiple speakers]

Mr. Singh: What plan is this?

Ms. May: Which science did you find that matches

that target?

Mr. Singh: In line with the IPCC report, and it's to

keep warming within 1.5°.

Which you love to say, and it's very important.

And I agree with you.

Ms. May: I love to say it?

Because it's about our children's survival,

which I love to protect.

Mr. Singh: Here's the thing. To take on the climate crisis

that we're in, it's going to require the courage

to fight big polluters.

It's going take the courage to stand up to the massive

lobbyists that Mr. Trudeau has caved into and the reason

why we continue to pay subsidies to the fossil fuel sector.

We would immediately end those subsidies --

Mr. Trudeau: Mr. Singh, Ms. May, the experts are agreed that

what a climate plan needs to do is to be ambitious and doable.

And of the plans that are forward here on this stage,

there is only one plan that the experts have qualified as both

ambitious and doable, and that is the plan that we have begun

to put in place over the past 4 years.

Lisa: Last word.

Mr. Scheer: Mr. Trudeau's plan is failing.

It is making everything more expensive for

hardworking Canadians.

And he has granted a massive exemption to the country's

largest emitters.

Our plan takes the climate change fight global recognizing

that Canada can do more to fight climate change by exporting

our clean technology and helping other countries lower

their emissions.

Lisa: And that concludes -- that is all the time we have

for the open debate.

That concludes this segment.

You had an opportunity. You got to jump right in.

So thank you, all, very much for the conclusion

of that segment.

♪ ♪

Althia: Hello.

I'm Althia Raj from Huff Post Canada , and the theme of

this segment is polarization, human rights and immigration.

And we'll begin with my question to NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh.

Mr. Singh, I want to ask you about Bill 21.

Your campaign is about courage, but you have not shown

the courage to fight Québec's discriminatory law.

It bars individuals who, like yourself, wear religious

symbols from some provincial employments.

If you were prime minister, would you stand back

and allow another province to discriminate against

its citizens?

Aren't you, and frankly the other leaders on the stage,

putting your own party's interests in Québec

ahead of your principles and the equality rights

of all citizens?

You have a minute to answer.

Mr. Singh: Sure.

It's probably pretty obvious to folks that I am obviously

against Bill 21.

It is something that hurts me, makes me feel sad.

I think about all the times I grew up being told

I couldn't do things because of the way I looked.

And I think about all the people in Canada that grow up

being told you can't achieve more because of their identity

or who they are.

And I think about the people in Québec right now that are

being told just because they wear a hijab that they

can't be a teacher,

or if they wear a yarmulke, they can't be a judge.

And that's hurtful, and it's wrong.

It probably comes as no surprise that I'm opposed to laws

that divide people.

What I do every single day when I go to Québec,

I say, hey, I'm here, I'm someone that believes

in fighting the climate crisis.

I'm someone that believes in firmly and unequivocally

the rights of women, the right of a woman to choose

and to build more access to abortion services.

I believe firmly in making sure we tackle the powerful

corporations that are influencing government

and that are not allowing --

that are challenging our ability to ensure that we

build services that lift up people.

I'm doing that every single day.

Althia: Thank you.

Mr. Scheer, you and Mr. Singh may debate this question.

Mr. Scheer: Well, Mr. Singh, I just want to start off by

congratulating you on the way you've handled so many issues

around race and identity.

Someone who has been the victim of these types of racist acts

in the past, I certainly believe you have handled it

with a lot of class.

Especially as it relates to some of the scandals that have

come out during this campaign.

I believe it's very important for people to understand

that while we will not intervene in this court case,

as a Conservative government, we do recognize and the

Conservative Party always stands for freedom and equality and

individual liberty, and we will make sure that --

we will not pursue this type of bill at the federal level.

Mr. Singh: I want to just touch on one of the themes

of this discussion, polarization.

And while Bill 21 is going to single out

people because of the way they look,

another thing that's happening in our country right now is

that people are being pit against each other.

And what's happening is people who can't find a home,

can't afford their bills, can't get the medication or

healthcare they need, are being told it's not the fault

of powerful corporations and those who are not paying

their fair share, but it's the fault of new Canadians.

It's the fault of a 12-year-old refugee,

or an immigrant who's breaking his back working 12 hours a day.

And that's why it's important for us to tackle economic

security if we want to tackle the polarization.

Althia: Thank you, Mr. Scheer and Mr. Singh.

Ms. May, you may debate Mr. Singh on this question.

Ms. May: I want to also echo Andrew's comments because

I think Jagmeet has done, as we all have done through this

rather strange period of an election campaign,

confronting issues of privilege and anyone with white skin

has privilege.

But when we look at Bill 21 in Québec,

I think it challenges all of us.

Like the NDP, the Green Party opposes Bill 21.

And then we're left with the question of what is

the best way for a federal government to protect

human rights within Québec.

Québecers are fighting this out within Québec.

Québec groups are going to court to say that

Bill 21 discriminates.

And as that goes forward, we are, frankly, looking at a

situation where we don't want to do anything

that hurts that debate within Quebec.

Mr. Singh: I understand.

What I want to also just touch on, while Bill 21 is

of course polarizing, on that point -- I know you agree

with me on this -- we've got to tackle the powerful

corporations that are not paying their fair share.

And that's part of the reason why people aren't able to

earn a good living and part of the reason why people

can't find housing or can't get the medication they need.

Because those at the top aren't paying their fair share.

Ms. May: It's not even about paying their fair share.

I think we'll agree on this.

Althia: Okay, thank you very much.

Ms. May, thank you. Ms. May, thank you.

Mr. Blanchet, your turn to debate Mr. Singh.

Mr. Blanchet: Yes. With 70 percent --

Mr. Singh: I'll give you more than 10 seconds.

Mr. Blanchet: You're nice.

With 70 percent of the population of Quebec supporting

Bill 21, and 70 percent of the members of Parliament

in Quebec supporting Bill 21 it's hardly a polarization

issue in Québec. That's the problem.

The problem is that -- and in English tonight

it will be quite clear -- everybody here has problems

with the very idea of, I will say it because there is

no word for that in English.

Everybody has a problem with it, but say in best of cases

that they would tolerate it.

But Québec does not need to be told what to do or what not

to do about its own values, nor its language,

nor themselves as a nation.

Mr. Singh: This is a bill that just says to people because

of the way they look that they can't do a job.

Mr. Blanchet: You know this is not true.

And you tweet that --

[inaudible; multiple speakers]

Mr. Singh: Instead of that, what we should been doing --

Mr. Blanchet, instead of what we should be doing,

let's protect women's rights.

Let's build up more protection for a woman's right to choose.

Let's build up more protections for the LGBT community.

Let's build up more protections in society to build a society

where there is --

Althia: Okay, thank you.

Mr. Blanchet, thank you. Mr. Singh.

Mr. Trudeau and Mr. Singh can debate this question.

Mr. Trudeau: Mr. Singh, you have spoken very eloquently

about discrimination and fought against it all your life,

and that's why it's so surprising to have heard

you say, like every other leader on the stage, that a federal

government under you would not intervene in the question

of Bill 21 in Québec.

It's a question where, yes, it's awkward politically, because

as Mr. Blanchet says, it is very popular.

But I'm the only one on this stage who said, yes, a federal

government might have to intervene on this.

Because a federal government needs to protect

minority rights.

Needs to protect language rights.

Needs to protect women's rights.

And needs to do that right across the country.

You didn't say that you would possibly intervene.

You didn't even leave the door open.

Mr. Singh: Let's be honest for a second here.

Every single day of my life is fighting a bill like Bill 21.

Every single day of my life.

Mr. Trudeau: So why not fight it if you form government?

Mr. Singh: Every single day of my life is challenging

people who think that you can't do things because of

the way you look.

Every single day of my life I channel the frustrations

of people who feel that as well.

Like many people across our country are told

they can't achieve what they want because of how they look.

Mr. Trudeau: So why not act on your convictions

and leave the door open for challenging it?

Althia: Okay, thank you, Mr. Trudeau, Mr. Singh.

Mr. Bernier, your chance to go head to head with Mr. Singh.

Mr. Bernier: Yes, about the Bill 21,

we must respect the Constitution.

And we won't interfere at the federal level.

That's the definition from the provincial government.

And that's what we must do.

But also, Mr. Singh, you said that you didn't want me to be

here on this stage to have a discussion with you.

So you're for diversity, but what about diversity of opinion?

I have the right to have another opinion

about immigration.

And I don't know why you're not -- you're a leader and you

must be trying to have everybody on your side --

but are you believing --

Mr. Singh: Let me answer that question.

I can answer that question.

Mr. Bernier: Are you believing in free speech only

when people are saying things that you want to hear?

Mr. Singh: You're asking, let me answer it.

After a couple of minutes of this debate tonight, I think

people can clearly see why I didn't think you should

deserve a platform.

The comments that you're making, the type of things you say --

it's one thing to say that you disagree with somebody,

that's fine, but when you incite hatred --

Mr. Bernier: No I don't! No, it's not true.

You cannot say that.

[inaudible; multiple speakers]

Mr. Singh: You insult a young girl, ask about her

mental stability, it shows a lack of judgment.

You don't deserve a platform,

and I'm happy to challenge you on that because

your ideas are hurtful to Canada.

I will always work to build unity, bring people together.

Unlike you.

Althia: Okay, thank you very much.

Merci, Mr. Bernier. Thank you, Mr. Singh.

Continuing with our theme of polarization, human rights,

immigration, we have people watching this debate

right across the country, including a big crowd at the

Student Union Building at the University of British Columbia.

And our next question comes from Paige McDicken who joins us

from Vancouver.

Please go ahead, Paige.

Paige: Hi, good evening.

Hi, good evening.

My name is Paige McDicken, and I'm here tonight at U.B.C.,

but I live in Coldstream, British Columbia.

My question is along the lines of polarization and, to me,

Canada feels more divided than ever before.

If diversity is our strength, but division is weakness,

how will your leadership seek to provide a unified vision

for Canada and how will you ensure that all voices

across the political spectrum are heard and considered?

Thank you.

Althia: Mr. Singh, you may begin.

You have 40 seconds.

Mr. Singh: Sure.

Paige, thank you so much for the question.

I appreciate getting a chance to chat with you.

Thanks for tuning in.

When you talk about the divisions we have in

our country, there are a lot of divisions, and they're growing.

And I point to a lot of reasons for it.

There's radicalization, there's hateful discourse,

there's a climate which allows people to be emboldened.

But the other reason why people are being exploited into

hating one another is because they're worried

about the future.

There's a lot of people that can't get

the basic things they need --

like housing, the healthcare they need.

And it's really the neglect of the federal government

that have brought us to this position.

And I think the way we tackle a lot of the polarization is

making sure people get the basic things they need.

Like housing, healthcare.

Althia: Thank you very much.

Mr. Scheer, your turn.

Mr. Scheer: Well, it's very important that we understand

why Canada is a country of such diversity.

It's because people come from all over the world

to take refuge here, to build a better life here.

It is because of our freedom.

That is the common ground that everyone who has come here,

no matter what generation, no matter from

what part of the world, can agree on.

And it's important that we remember that,

promote that and ensure that people who come here

embrace that aspect that makes our country so great.

But what is very dangerous is when you have

a prime minister like Justin Trudeau who uses

legitimate issues like racism and hateful language to demonize

anyone who disagrees with him,

calling people un-Canadian for disagreeing with his failure

on the border --

Althia: Thank you very much.

Mr. Scheer, I'm sorry.

Ms. May, your turn.

Ms. May: Thanks, Paige, and hey to you, B.C.

Thank you.

I raise my hands to the Musqueam, Squamish and

Tsleil-Waututh territory.

We need the kind of leadership that lifts people up,

that doesn't make people feel as if politics is rather

disgusting and they'd rather not look at it.

We have to restore the idea of real democracy where every

citizen has agency and power to work together.

Mission Possible for climate action.

We call all hands on deck. We're going to need everybody.

And to have the kind of democracy that really reflects

everyone, we need fair voting.

We need to get rid of first-past-the-post,

because it creates each political party as rival

warring camps, even when the elections are over.

Althia: Thank you very much, Ms. May.

Mr. Blanchet.

Mr. Blanchet: Yes.

I believe that democracy grows on information.

So translating with people, by vote for people who look like

you is at best dishonest.

And may I remind you that in 2011, the exact same

phrase was said by Michael Ignatieff.

That in 2015, the same sentence was said by Thomas Mulcair.

So people --

Althia: Thank you very much. I'm sorry, you're out of time.

Mr. Trudeau?

It's 40 seconds for each leader.

Ms. May: It says 45 on...

Althia: I'm sorry. It has moved on to 40, sorry.

Everybody has the same time. It's Mr. Trudeau's time.

Thank you.

Mr. Trudeau: Thank you, Paige, for your question.

It's great to see everyone at U.B.C.

One of my alma maters.

It's really important to recognize that, yes,

we're in a time of polarization and differences

that get highlighted by the kind of debate going on

at this stage and in this campaign about

how we're moving forward.

The reality is Canadians agree on most things.

We want to raise our kids in a world that is getting better

for them.

We want to be able to pay for their futures.

We want to be able to retire in comfort.

We want to create opportunities for our neighbours as well.

This is something that binds Canadians together

right around the country.

And the fact that there is a politics of fear

and division that is continuing to dominate here

underlies what we're actually doing together as a country.

Althia: Thank you very much, Mr. Trudeau.

Mr. Bernier.

Mr. Bernier: Speaking about immigration,

it is not polarization.

Actually Canada receives more immigrants per capita

than any other Western country.

Three times higher than the U.S.

So we must have a discussion about that.

It is the equivalent of one Nova Scotia every three years,

the population of Nova Scotia every three years

here in Canada.

So you know, they all are for mass immigration.

I'm for a sustainable immigration.

And that's why we must have fewer immigrants,

the maximum of 150,000 a year

with more economic immigrants for our country.

Althia: Thank you very much, Mr. Bernier.

We are moving on to a one-on-one format

followed by an open debate.

We start with Conservative leader Andrew Scheer.

You may pick any leader of your choice

and ask any question of your choosing.


Althia: You have 30 seconds.

Mr. Scheer: Mr. Trudeau, you broke ethics laws twice.

You interfered in an ongoing criminal court proceeding.

You shut down parliamentary investigations into your

corruption and you fired the only two people in your caucus

who were speaking out against what you were trying to do,

just for telling the truth.

Tell me, when did you decide the rules don't apply to you?

Mr. Trudeau: Mr. Scheer, the role of a prime minister is to

stand up for Canadians' jobs, to stand up for the

public interest, and that's what I've done

and will continue to do every single day.

The way I have worked for Canadians is around

investing in them.

Unlike the vision you're putting forward of giving tax breaks

that help people who are making $400,000 a year more

than someone making $40,000 a year.

You're offering a $50,000 tax break, which is more money

than most Canadians earn to the wealthiest Canadians

with your plan.

Of course, we don't entirely know your plan because you

haven't released your costed platform yet,

which I think is a disrespect to every Canadian watching tonight.

Mr. Scheer: Where's your costed platform?

Half of it isn't costed.

Althia: Mr. Scheer, you will have a chance to rebut.

Mr. Trudeau: Our platform came out weeks ago, and we worked

with the Parliamentary Budget Officer and we have a vision,

but it is a different vision than yours,

because we're choosing to invest in people.

You're choosing, just like Doug Ford did, to hide your

platform from Canadians and deliver cuts, cuts to

services and cuts to taxes for the wealthiest.

Althia: Mr. Scheer, you may begin to rebut.

And anybody is free to join in.

Mr. Scheer: You know, you're making things up again.

Half of your platform isn't even costed.

You're making announcements without any details.

And without any numbers.

You aren't telling Canadians --

Mr. Trudeau: This is entirely untrue.

You're the one who is hiding your platform from Canadians.

Mr. Scheer: We know that taxes will go up under your government

if you're re-elected.

We started off talking about --

[inaudible; multiple speakers]

Mr. Scheer: You looked Canadians in the eye and you said

the allegations in The Globe and Mail were false.

You said Jodie Wilson-Raybould never came to you.

You said you never put pressure on her.

We now know that those were all lies.

You have failed to tell the truth in a corruption scandal.

Mr. Trudeau: Mr. Scheer, the responsibility of any

prime minister is to stand up for jobs.

And what you're saying is you wouldn't have done that.

Mr. Scheer: The CEO of SNC-Lavalin said they'd

never threaten jobs or moving their headquarters.

You are making that up again.

Mr. Singh: What we have here is Mr. Trudeau and Mr. Scheer

arguing about who is worse for Canada.

Really we got to start presenting who's going to be

best for Canada.

And when we think about what Canadians are going through,

Mr. Scheer, your small tax cuts are not going to help a family

that's struggling with the cost of childcare,

which costs thousands of dollars a month.

Your small tax cuts aren't going to help out a family

that's struggling with the cost of medication

that can cost hundreds of dollars a month.

Mr. Scheer: Canadians are struggling to get by,

and we're going to put more money in their pocket.

$850 with the universal tax cut.

Mr. Singh: Let me finish my point here.

We're going to same families money by investing

in pharmacare for all,

which is going to save families over $500 a month.

[inaudible; multiple speakers]

Mr. Singh: We're going to invest in childcare --

let me finish my point.

We're going to invest in childcare which is going

to save families thousands of dollars a month.

And we're going to make sure that those families that earn

less than $70,000 get dentacare.

That's going to save families at least $1240 a month.

Mr. Bernier: Where will you find the money?

Mr. Singh: This is the Conservative spin,

where we're going to find the money is this:

we're going to ask the wealthiest Canadians,

those who have wealth of over $20 million,

those who have fortunes of over $20 million,

we're going to ask them to pay a little bit more.

Yes, we think they should.

It's only going to apply to --

Ms. May: You know what's fascinating about that proposal,

because we have the same proposal in our budget.

When the Parliamentary Budget Office reviews them

guess what they find is the single biggest uncertainty

when we go for revenues from the wealthiest?

They're worried that they'll hire lawyers and avoid

paying that tax.

If you go look at the Parliamentary Budget Office

reviews, people said 'oh, well, the Green Party is proposing

to spend a lot of money'.

Yes, on pharmacare, yes on childcare, abolishing tuition,

and the weakness, they say, in our revenue sources is

that wealthy Canadians will continue to hire lawyers

and evade their taxes.

I think that's shocking.

I think we need to say to people, this is the most

beautiful, blessed country on earth, and if you have

wealth, you have obligation, you have responsibility.

Mr. Blanchet: If I may --

Ms. May: Pay your taxes.

Mr. Blanchet: I seem to remember --

Mr. Singh: People have got to contribute their fair share.

Makes sense.

Mr. Bernier: I seem to remember that Mr. Scheer referred to

remember that Mr. Scheer the SNC-Lavalin scandal.

And I want to speak for 3,400 innocent people

that did nothing wrong.

When Mr. Trudeau tried to find a solution, he did it the

wrong way and he admitted it.

What you are doing, Mr. Scheer, is playing this old card.

You're trading the idea that Québec is corrupt.

Those 3,400 people have done nothing wrong.

Now the value of the shares are going down.

The employees are leaving.

Mr. Scheer: Mr. Blanchet, with all due respect,

there is never an excuse for a prime minister to

interfere in an independent court case.

We do not want to live in a country where someone can abuse

the power of their office to reward their friends

and punish their enemies.

Mr. Blanchet: And those people have to pay the price for that.

Innocent people pay the price for that.

Mr. Bernier: I just want to add, Andrew, that I was the only

leader who said no corporation is above the law.

I was the only one who said that.

Mr. Scheer: That's not true.

Ms. May: I think I said that, too, Max.

It may be the only thing on which we agree

that no corporation is above the law.

And we need an inquiry into what went on --

Mr. Bernier: Good, it's a nice beginning.

Althia: What a wonderful show of unanimity on

this wonderful topic.

And that wraps up this topic and this segment.

Thank you very much.

♪ ♪

I'm Susan Delacourt from the Toronto Star .

Welcome, leaders.

I'm moderator for the next theme which will be Indigenous issues.

We're going to begin this segment which was also

chosen by random draw with my question to Conservative

leader Andrew Scheer.

So here it is.

Mr. Scheer, you've said that a Conservative government would

focus on practical things in its relationship with Canada's

Indigenous people.

As you pursue your promised energy corridor, practically

speaking, how will you consult, accommodate, and obtain consent

from Indigenous peoples?

And what will you do when your plans come into conflict

with Indigenous rights and interests?

Mr. Scheer: Well, thank you very much for the question.

And as someone who has 12 First Nations reserves in his riding,

I understand the importance of balancing treaty rights

and also the ability for Indigenous Canadians to

participate in the economy.

That really is the key.

And what I've said is that a Conservative government will

ensure that the proposal for the national energy corridor

takes into account Indigenous concerns by ensuring that

a cabinet minister is responsible specifically

for Indigenous consultations.

And unlike the court ruling that found that the current

government mishandled the consultations under the TMX

Pipeline, we will ensure that it's dynamic, that it is more

than just ticking a box and listening to concerns.

It's actually addressing those concerns.

But we have to remember that we have to get to a place

in this country where big things can get built again.

And duty to consult means that concerns are heard

and addressed.

But that also we find a path to letting things get built

in this country.

Susan: Ms. May.

Ms. May: Thank you.

I am appalled by the fact that Mr. Scheer has forgotten

that there was a duty to consult on the Harper government

as well and that they also violated in the findings

of the court,

identical to Trans Mountain on the case of Enbridge.

It's the United Nation's Declaration on the Rights

of Indigenous Peoples needs to come into force of law

in this country.

I know you oppose it because of debate we had at Maclean's ,

but the reality is that Section 35 of the Constitution already

requires consultation, and it does not boil down to

we will consult with Indigenous people until we get them

to agree with us.

It is about respect, nation to nation of Indigenous territorial

rights that are inherent.

Mr. Scheer: So what does free, prior and informed consent mean

for every single Indigenous community?

What about the dozens and dozens of Indigenous communities

who want these projects to go ahead?

Ms. May: Why are you prepared to set aside the decision

of the Human Rights Tribunal to fight it in court, just as

Mr. Trudeau is when they actually found as a matter

of fact that our government committed acts that were

reckless, and willful in the violation of the rights

of Indigenous children.

We must live up to that decision.

Mr. Scheer: There are dozens of Indigenous communities who

want these projects to go ahead because they know that

it's the key to prosperity on the reserve.

They know it's the way for their young people to get jobs.

Ms. May: Territorial rights are inherently local.

I don't want to argue. I'll let you talk.

Susan: Mr. Blanchet, it is now your turn.

Mr. Blanchet: Thank you.

You say, Mr. Scheer, that you want to respect provinces

and Québec's jurisdiction.

But when it comes to this pipeline of yours, this --

[speaking in French]

which translation, I'm sorry, in English is pipeline --

you don't fear the idea of expropriating territories

going into provinces and saying the Constitution,

yours not mine, the Constitution says that I have the right

to go through provinces, through Québec,

without their approval.

And may I remind you that Québecers and the Prime Minister

of Québec have said clearly that he does not want it.

Mr. Scheer: That's completely false.

What we're talking about here is addressing the environmental

concerns and the Indigenous concerns up front.

Getting that out of the way so there can be a geographic space

so projects can be built again.

Including Quebec.

Mr. Blanchet: Now it belongs Québec.

Mr. Scheer: We're talking about the regulatory environment

around it.

And you know as well as I do that Québecers purchase

a huge percentage of their energy from the United States.

I've made my choice.

I believe Québecers should get --

[inaudible; multiple speakers]

Mr. Scheer: I made my choice, Mr. Blanchet.

Mr. Blanchet: You have done, and Quebec will make his.

Susan: Mr. Bernier, I remind you that this is about how

will we respect Indigenous rights?


Oh, Mr. Trudeau. Sorry.

Mr. Trudeau: Thank you.

We all remember 10 years of Stephen Harper who did not

respect Indigenous rights, did not respect Indigenous peoples.

And Mr. Scheer, you're putting forward exactly the same plan

that didn't just fail Indigenous peoples, didn't just fail

Indigenous communities and their kids, but they also failed

to get important energy projects built.

We need to keep moving forward in a way that respects

Indigenous peoples, respects that there's going to be a

range of views, but is grounded in the

U.N. Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples that

you have consistently blocked through your party's actions.

That is not respect for Indigenous peoples.

Perry Bellegarde, the Grand Chief, the Head of the

Assembly of First Nation's has said that no government has

done more for Indigenous peoples than this government.

And he's one of your constituents, Mr. Scheer.

Mr. Scheer: That's right. He comes from Little Blackbear

in my riding.

Mr. Trudeau: He'd love to talk to you.

Mr. Scheer: He's got my phone number.

Mr. Trudeau: I'll ask him to give you a phone call sometime.

Mr. Scheer: I have nothing to learn from Mr. Trudeau

who fired the first Indigenous attorney general

for doing her job.

She said that she would do politics differently

and you fired her when she did.

You want to talk about getting pipelines built?

You've cancelled two pipelines,

and the one you bought, you can't build.

You've let tens of thousands of people in Alberta and

Saskatchewan down.

And you have failed to recognize that Indigenous

communities are hurt by this as well.

Mr. Trudeau: I am accepting the fact that I'm going to be

attacked for not building pipelines from some

and for building pipelines for others.

[inaudible; multiple speakers]

Susan: I think we'll be talking about this more.

Mr. Scheer: You're doing nothing.

Susan: Mr. Bernier?

Mr. Bernier: Mr. Scheer, you've said that you're ready

for building pipelines all across this country

by the private sector.

But at the same time, you said, you know, Québecers are ready

to buy oil and gas from Canada.

I agree with that.

I agree that Québecers know that it's safer to transport

oil and gas by pipelines than by trains.

But at the same time, the Québec government said that there is

no social acceptability for a pipeline in Québec.

What will be your position on that?

Do you think that you'll be able to use

the Constitution, because after consultation, if we don't

have any agreement, we must be able to use the Constitution,

Section 92.10, to be able to build a pipeline.

When you do that, the federal government will have the full

authority, the full jurisdiction to approve the pipeline.

But what you're saying, you're for pipelines, but you don't

have the courage to use the Constitution to be sure that

we'll have pipelines in this country for the unity of our

country and the prosperity of our country.

Mr. Scheer: That's just not the case at all.

I've always said the government must stand up for

federal jurisdiction.

We respect provincial jurisdiction.

When you've got the best idea, I'm convinced I can get support

for this project.

Mr. Bernier: You don't have the support in Québec,

you don't have the support in B.C.

Mr. Scheer: Québecers know that it's better to take

energy from western Canada than the tanker after tanker of

foreign oil coming up the St. Lawrence, or oil and gas

coming from Donald Trump's economy.

I know Québecers will support this project because it will

also allow them to share their hydro-electrical power

with other provinces as well.

Susan: Mr. Singh?

Mr. Singh: I want to talk about a recent decision.

The Human Rights Tribunal of Canada found that the

Harper government and Mr. Trudeau's government

willfully and recklessly discriminated against

Indigenous kids.

These are kids that weren't getting equal funding.

Then there's a landmark decision that said these kids should

get equal funding.

And it was received as, finally, some justice for those kids.

Then Mr. Trudeau now, and his government, are going

to appeal that decision.

He wanted to fight hard to keep SNC-Lavalin out of the courts,

but he's going to drag Indigenous kids to court.

That is wrong.

How could someone do that?

How could someone do that?

Mr. Scheer: This decision will have huge ramifications for

several aspects of the way the federal government provides

services to Indigenous Canadians.

It also is a very large significant settlement amount,

and I believe when you're dealing with these types of

important public policy issues, that it's legitimate to say

it should be reviewed -- have a judicial review.

Mr. Singh: I disagree of course, but I want to talk

about one other issue.

We're talking about Indigenous issues.

I went to Grassy Narrows again just recently.

We've got a community impacted by mercury poisoning,

and an Indigenous activist went to a private fundraiser where

Mr. Trudeau mocked that Indigenous activist saying

"thank you for your donation."

To someone living with mercury poisoning.

What kind of prime minister does that?

Mr. Scheer: I wish I had that answer.

But one that doesn't deserve to be re-elected.

Susan: That's time for this section of the debate.

The open debate is over, but we continue on our theme

of Indigenous affairs.

We have a question from an audience member here

in Gatineau.

Natasha Beedie.

Go ahead, Natasha.

Natasha: Good evening.

As a member of Beausoleil First Nation, my question is this,

if elected, how would your parties work with provinces and

territories on recognizing and affirming Indigenous rights,

specifically noting the U.N. Declaration on the Rights of

Indigenous peoples, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's

calls to action, and the calls for justice in the recent

Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls Inquiry.


Susan: The leaders will all have a chance to answer

this question. Thank you, Natasha.

Starting with Mr. Scheer.

Mr. Scheer: Thank you very much for the question.

Of course there's a lot there for just 40 seconds.

There are many areas in the Missing and Murdered Indigenous

Women report that Conservatives have been calling for

for quite a while.

Including combating human trafficking.

Something that is very important.

Also, we support preserving Indigenous languages by ensuring

that the federal government does what it can to prevent

some of the languages that are at risk of being lost

to preserve them.

When we're talking about the U.N. Declaration on the Rights

of Indigenous Peoples, we need to remember that when you talk

about free, prior and informed consent, that leaves a great

deal of uncertainty about what that means.

And there are large numbers of Indigenous communities

who want these energy projects to succeed,

and we need certainty and clarity around that.

Susan: All right.

We will now go to Ms. May.

Ms. May: Natasha, miigwetch.

It's an extremely important question and Greens

across the country are united in this.

We will honour the U.N. Declaration on the rights

of indigenous peoples.

It must be brought into law in this country.

And our existing web of laws and regulations,

which were properly described by the Inquiry

on Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women

as constituting structural violence

must be reviewed and brought up

to the standard of the United Nations Declaration.

We must bring in the recommendations of the Inquiry

into the Missing and Murdered Indigenous

Women and Girls and the calls to action of

The Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

It is not a short-term project.

It is on us as settler Canadians to bring justice.

Susan: Mr. Blanchet.

Mr. Blanchet: We also support the Declaration of the

United Nations on the Rights of Indigenous People.

I do believe and I spend the most beautiful moments

of this campaign with people from the First Nations.

They are nations as well as Canada is a nation

and Québec is a nation.

A nation does not put its culture, its language

its heritage in the hands of another nation.

So what they ask for, and they have to ask because

we are not -- we are no better than they are,

to represent themselves, is that all those reports

and inquiries and declarations, bring something

real and respectful for them.

Susan: Mr. Trudeau.

Mr. Trudeau: Thank you, Natasha, for the question.

We have moved forward on reconciliation in ways

that no previous government has been able to,

but I'm the first to recognize there

is much more to do.

We lifted 87 long-term boil-water advisories

and we're on track to lifting 50 more.

But we're continuing to invest in communities

on the issue of child and family services.

We recognize the tribunal's ruling that

says children need to be compensated

and we will be compensating them.

But we've also moved forward to end the tragedies

by moving forward on legislation that keeps kids

in care in their communities with their language,

with their culture.

We also want to move forward with Grassy Narrows

with the community on a treatment centre

and money is not the objection to investing

in what they need in that treatment centre.

Susan: Thank you.

Mr. Bernier.

Mr. Bernier: No other leader is ready to build

a new relationship with our First Nations.

They all support the status quo.

But the system is broken.

We still have extreme poverty on reserve.

We need a bold reform.

And we are the only party that will try to implement

property rights on reserve and also establish

a new relationship based on self-reliance

for these communities.

We need to build a new system working with them,

but that is not what they want.

Because we cannot fix the system right now

if we don't do a bold reform and we are ready for that.

Susan: Mr. Singh.

Mr. Singh: Thank you so much for the question.

Really, it's a matter of respect and dignity.

All of the issues you raised come down

to the basic question of respect and dignity.

One of the first things we'd do, we wouldn't take

indigenous kids to court and challenge a decision

that says they were willfully and recklessly

discriminated against.

We wouldn't do that.

We would immediately address issues of justice.

That means implementing all the recommendations

from the reports that are so powerful and have

a guideline toward solving the problems.

We'd make sure there is clean drinking water.

I don't accept any excuses why we can't in 2019.

We'd make sure that we'd implement clean housing,

good quality housing and education and welfare services.

We can do these things.

Susan: Thank you.

Now we have time for another leader-to-leader debate

on any topic.

Leading this one off will be Green party leader,

Elizabeth May.

Elizabeth, you have, I believe, one minute.

Ms. May: Thank you, thank you, Susan.

My question is to Justin Trudeau.

Picking up from this very fractured discussion

on indigenous issues, but let's face it, right now

indigenous peoples, the Assembly of First Nations

are telling us their number one concern

is climate emergency.

And we need to focus on real solutions.

It's not good enough to have better rhetoric

than Mr. Scheer, and with all respect to Mr. Singh,

it's not about rhetoric.

It's about a target grounded in science.

And to do that we need 60 percent reductions by 2030,

not Mr. Singh's 38, not your 30.

Will you, Mr. Trudeau, join with all of us

in an inner cabinet that gets rid of the partisanship

and says after this election, we move to protect

our children's future together?

Susan: Mr. Trudeau, your answer.

Mr. Trudeau: We recognize that targets are important;

we're going to be surpassing the targets we inherited,

but targets are not a plan.

We have a real plan that has delivered

over the past four years on our way to banning

single-use plastics, on putting a price on pollution

right across the country, in a way

that returns money to Canadians.

Unlike what Mr. Scheer is saying, most Canadians

better off.

80 percent of Canadians better off with a price

on pollution than they will be when he rips up

our climate change if he were to form government

after this election.

We will continue to do the things that need to be done

and bring Canadians along with it.

Our plan is realistic and ambitious and doable.

And that is what Canadians need.

Because the danger of not acting on the environment

is tremendous.

The danger of not having a plan for our future,

either the environment or the economy,

is going to be borne by our kids.

Susan: Ms. May, you may now begin open debate.

There is 3 minutes and 45 seconds.

Ms. May: The science is clear.

Your target is a commitment to failure,

that's why it's so doable and achievable,

because it doesn't do what the IPCC says we must do.

We must go off fossil fuels as quickly as possible.

You bought a pipeline.

You can't be a climate leader and spend $10 to $13

billion more on a project that by itself

blows through our carbon budget.

Mr. Trudeau: A slogan is not a plan, Ms. May.

Ms. May: We have a plan.

Mr. Trudeau: It is an unrealizable plan.

Canadians need action that is going to

actually make us better, fight climate change,

protect the environment and build a stronger economy

for our kids.

That's what we have --

Ms. May: With all due respect --

Mr. Trudeau: We have done more in the past four years

than any government in the history of Canada.

Ms. May: No, that's not true.

Paul Martin did more.

No one remembers Paul Martin's plan in 2005;

it was better.

[talking over each other]

Mr. Trudeau: Over the past four years

we delivered on it.

Susan: Can we let some other leaders in?

Ms. May: Having a four-story building and getting

a one-story ladder doesn't do it.

Mr. Scheer: That is completely false.

And just because you say something over and over again

doesn't make it true.

Mr. Trudeau: It would be nice for you to learn that,

Mr. Scheer.

[audience laughter]

Mr. Scheer: There is no Canadian that believes

they're going to be better off

by paying a carbon tax.

You have given a massive exemption to the country's

largest polluters.

Mr. Trudeau: Economists, the experts, the parliamentary

budget officer points out that 80 percent of Canadians

are better off under our --

Mr. Scheer: He had to trust the numbers you gave him.

Nobody believes your numbers, Justin.

Mr. Trudeau: You do not want to act on climate change.

[talking over each other]

Susan: One at a time.

Mr. Singh and then Mr. Bernier.

Mr. Singh: I want to say this directly to Canadians.

You do not need to choose between Mr. Delay

and Mr. Deny.

There is another option out there.

We are committed to a real plan that is going to take on

the biggest polluters, it's going to take on

the powerful interests, because that's what we need to do

if we want to build a better future.

Ms. May: What is your target?

Mr. Singh: It's going to mean taking on the powerful.

Ms. May: You can take on the powerful,

but you to need to have a plan that is rooted

in targets that saves our kids' future.

[talking over each other]

Mr. Singh: We're prepared to do that.

Mr. Bernier: People must know that Mr. Scheer

and Mr. Trudeau, you're the same on climate change.

You want to impose carbon tax on Canadians and

you want to impose more costly immigration.

Mr. Blanchet: I think that's most thing you've said

all night, Max, that we're the same on climate change.

Mr. Bernier: You want to impose also a big tax

on the big emitters.

So, you're the same on climate change and you won't be able

to achieve your target.

Mr. Blanchet: You and I have to find some common

ground when we get into that House of Commons.

Ms. May: I don't think it'll be on JNL Quebec

and the fact that you're supporting a project

that blows through more of the carbon budget

against the will of many Quebecers

and threatens the St. Lawrence River.

Mr. Blanchet: This is not what I had in mind

when I provided answers to that.

I think the goal should be down to almost nothing.

Not 30, not 60, but almost nothing.

What do you think about this idea of equalization

based on gas emissions?

Those who are over the average emissions of Canada

pay, and those who are under the average emissions

get the money.

The incentive is for both parts.

Ms. May: What we have to do is work together

and, with all due respect, that's the question

I asked Mr. Trudeau.

Are any of you prepared to accept the notion of

changing status quo decision-making so we form

an internal cabinet based on finding

the existential threat of climate change?

[talking over each other]

Susan: Ladies and gentlemen, that is all the time we have.

That concludes this round.

Thank you very much.

And onto the next one.

♪ ♪

Dawna: Hello.

I'm Dawna Friesen from Global News.

I'm moderating this segment on affordability

and income security.

Before I begin, I just want to say,

you've all been very vigorous in your debate.

Some of your comments have gone a little long.

We're going to have to trim a bit in terms of time,

but we'll make sure we keep those trims fair and equal.

So, on this topic, Ms. May,

I have a question to you.

Canadians are carrying $2 trillion

of household debt.

That means the average Canadian owes about $1.79 for every

dollar of income he or she earns per year after taxes.

It's never been this high.

We're borrowing to live.

Something my parents told me was a terrible idea.

You have made a bold promise to balance

the federal budget in five years.

How do you do that without causing more financial pain

for Canadians and putting people further into debt?

What is the single biggest thing in your policies,

in your platform that will reduce household debt?

Ms. May: Thank you for the question.

I'm very pleased that we are the party standing on stage

today that has a full platform,

has the budget numbers publicly accessible and

approved as a budget that passes muster by Kevin Page

and the Institute for Fiscal Studies and Democracy.

The way to bring more public service, to bring more help

to Canadians -- child care, banning tuition,

investing in post-secondary education,

pharmacare, dental programmes for low-income Canadians --

all things that make life more affordable

is not to have cuts, but to go after places where

there is revenue: offshore money that's being hidden,

a financial transaction tax,

going after one percent tax on people who have more than

$20 million in wealth, and a series of moves to increase

the revenue coming into the government of Canada.

Now that is all, of course, based on the current

economic situation.

If we hit a recession, we would not slavishly

or ideologically balance the books, but right now

we think we'll have a balanced budget in five years.

Dawna: Mr. Blanchet, your opportunity to debate

Ms. May on this topic.

Mr. Blanchet: It is really a bad idea

to borrow to live.

It is a no better idea to cut too strongly

into services to people that mainly need it.

What about the idea of cutting all subsidies to oil

as we proposed to do with bringing a law

on the floor about that.

How about this idea we have green equalization,

which brings money to the government?

How about cutting into those tax shelters,

including the two new ones created by Mr. Trudeau?

What about taxing and pursuing those giants on the web

that steal the money from our advertising companies?

Ms. May: In our platform, we call for taxes

on the e-commerce companies, the virtuals,

the Amazons, Googles and Facebook, that mine

billions of dollars out of this country

and pay virtually no tax.

We agree with you.

We have to cut all fossil fuel subsidies.

As a matter of fact, that was a promise made

by Mr. Harper in 2009, by Mr. Trudeau in 2015,

but they've increased because we're subsidizing

LNG which I'd like to hear you answer

where you are on GNL Quebec.

We need to get rid of fossil fuels and right now

we're still giving public funds to pipelines.

Mr. Blanchet: I was the minister responsible for the --

Dawna: I'm going to move you on, I'm sorry.

Mr. Trudeau, your chance to debate Ms. May

on household debt.

Mr. Trudeau: We made a very different decision

than Stephen Harper had in the previous ten years

when we decided to invest in Canadians instead.

And that decision to invest in the middle class and

people working hard to join it lifted 900,000 people

out of poverty including 300,000 kids.

We gave more support for students going to school.

We made more supports for seniors.

What that has done is grown our economy more

than a million new jobs created, most of them full-time

over the past four years at the same time

as we have reduced poverty exceeding any targets

that we had even set forward.

We've done that in way that is responsible.

The international credit --

Ms. May: He's at 45 seconds with 8 seconds left for me.

Dawna: Ms. May, Ms. May.

Ms. May: Can I respond?

Dawna: Let's give the floor to Ms. May.

Ms. May: The concern I have about all these debates

and I'm sure a number of leaders on stage share it,

we don't have any section on health costs

or health care in the course of two debates.

So I want to turn this to the affordability issue

and how much more affordable life will be for Canadians

with full universal, single-payer pharmacare.

It's in our platform.

It's partially in yours.

It's in Mr. Singh's.

We need to deliver healthcare.

Mr. Trudeau: We've taken concrete actions toward that.

Lowering drug prices.

Ms. May: But are you prepared to accept

Eric Hoskins' recommendations for universal,

single-payer healthcare?

Dawna: I'm afraid time's up for you.

Mr. Bernier, your chance to debate Ms. May

on household debt.

Mr. Bernier: Yeah, absolutely.

I look at your platform, Elizabeth,

and you know you will spend $60 billion.

Spending won't create any wealth.

You cannot spend your way to prosperity.

We need to have more private sector investment.

And at the end, you know, you know that our national

credit card is full.

We still have deficits.

And Mr. Trudeau just had $70 billion on our debt

and you'll add another $60 billion on our debt.

It is not responsible.

Our children will have to pay for that.

Ms. May: Your famous private sector having got

massive tax cuts when you were in Mr. Harper's cabinet

based on being told these were the job creators

and it would be great when they got tax cuts.

They have not invested in the economy.

They're sitting on piles of cash.

Mark Carney calls it the dead money.

We need to get that money and do public sector

infrastructure investments like a national grid.

Mr. Bernier: Do you know where we agree?

Ms. May: Global energy from one part of the country

to the other.

No pipelines, by the way, but we need an electricity grid

that serves the needs of every province and

every Canadian.

Mr. Bernier: What I like from you, Elizabeth, you don't

want any subsidies to the oil and gas industries

and I don't believe in corporate subsidies also

and corporate welfare, so we can agree on that.

Dawna: Alright, let's move on to Mr. Singh?

Your opportunity.

Mr. Singh: Thank you, Ms. May.

I appreciate that you wanted to shift

the discussion toward health care.

I think it's one of the biggest concerns

that families have.

When we look at Canadians across the country,

they can't get the medication they need.

They can't get the dental care they need.

They're struggling.

I met a woman in my office in Burnaby

who was covering up her mouth because

she was embarrassed that she lost her teeth

because she couldn't get the care she needed.

And that to me is heartbreaking in a country

as wealthy as ours.

I know, Ms. May, you're prepared to do this,

but the problem is Mr. Trudeau does not have the courage

to take on the insurance and the pharmaceutical lobbyists

that don't want this to happen.

I'm going to make this happen.

If you vote New Democrats, we're going to make sure

we make these things happen, because we don't work

for the powerful and wealthy.

We don't meet with pharmaceutical companies

and then listen to them.

We work for you; we work for Canadians.

We're going to deliver on these things.

Ms. May: I hope you'll agree with me,

we need to renegotiate a new health accord.

It's been left alone for too long.

We need to get back at the table.

The constituents in my riding -- I just did eight

debates with the local candidates in my riding.

By the way, all of you guys can be proud, except for you,

Mr. Blanchet, all of you can be proud of the candidates

you have running locally, because I've been

in eight debates with them in the last week.

One thing we heard from every constituent in every

Town Hall meeting is we are suffering from a lack

of family doctors.

We need investment in the health care.

The wheels are falling off the bus

and we need to invest.

Mr. Singh: And Mr. Trudeau continues the same cuts

brought in by the Conservatives.

Dawna: Mr. Scheer, your opportunity.

Mr. Scheer: The question was about affordability.

Dawna: And household debt.

Mr. Scheer: And the entire theme of our platform

is leaving more money in the pockets of Canadians

so that they can get ahead.

It's time for Canadians to have a break.

Our universal tax cut will mean $850 in the pocket

of a hard-working average-income Canadian.

We're going to bring back the children's fitness

tax credit to make raising children more affordable.

We're going to bring back the Green public transit

tax credit to make taking the bus or the train

more affordable.

We're going to help fight climate change by bringing in

the Green home renovation tax credit,

which will put money in the pockets of Canadians

and help lower emissions.

We're going pay for that.

Ms. May: It won't lower emissions.

The costs will go through the roof.

Mr. Scheer: The way we're going to pay for those

is by cutting corporate welfare and reducing

Canada's foreign aid budget by 25 percent.

So we're going to stop sending money to

the relatively well-off countries; we're going

to bring that home so Canadians can get ahead.

Ms. May: Mr. Scheer, that may be the worst idea

in your whole non-platform is the cutting of foreign aid.

I wear this little pin.

This is the sustainable development goals of the

United Nations to which this country is committed.

Ending poverty within next decade within Canada

and globally is actually possible.

But not if we ever had the misfortune

of having your short-term, misguided, greedy

and selfish policies.

Mr. Scheer: It's not greedy to put money

into the pockets of Canadians.

Dawna: We're going to stop you there.

Ms. May: It destabilized the world, what you're proposing.

Dawna: We're going to stop you there so that we can hear

from another Canadian, please.

On the theme of affordability,

one of the many places Canadians are watching tonight

is in Yellowknife, Northwest Territories.

Here's the scene at the Copper House Restaurant.

And earlier we heard a question on affordability

from Scott Marsden.

Hi, my name is Scott Marsden from Yellowknife.

My question is, what is your government going to do

about the growing crisis of income inequality

and affordability in Canada?

Dawna: Ms. May, first to you.

Ms. May: I've been in that restaurant.

Hello, Yellowknife.

Good to see you.

We must act for income equality.

We need to look at the fact that over the years,

the gap between the very wealthiest Canadians

and the average Canadian is continuing to expand.

We're calling for a tax commission.

We haven't had a proper tax commission

since the 1960s to examine our tax code,

to see if it's still progressive,

to find out if all these corporate boutique tax cuts

that have piled up one after the other

after successive governments is taking money away

from those Canadians who need it most

and allowing those who really have massive incomes

to continue, as many Auditor Generals have found,

to be treated by Canadian Revenue agencies as if

they have special status and don't have to pay

their taxes.

Dawna: Ms. May, thank you.

Mr. Blanchet.

Mr. Blanchet: First, I must say that, if saying untrue

things at the end of time, is your way to do things,

collaboration might be done already.

However, about the issue.

If federal government was to respect jurisdiction

of provinces, it would take less time.

It would cost less money.

And provinces in Québec could do what they

have to do about health care.

Bring the money that is owed to Québec and provinces.

This is what has to be done.

The money should be given to provinces and Québec,

because it is mostly -- if not only their jurisdiction.

That helps people.

Dawna: Mr. Trudeau, to you.

The question is about income inequality

and what you would do?

Mr. Trudeau: We recognize that we need to help

people more directly.

That's why the first thing we did was lower taxes

for the middle class and raise them

on the wealthiest one percent.

We're moving again forward with a tax break

for low and middle income Canadians and

nothing for the wealthiest, unlike Mr. Scheer's

universal tax credit.

We're also moving forward by increasing the Canada

child benefit which has lifted hundreds of thousands

of families out of poverty.

By 15 percent for kids under one.

We're increasing the Old Age Security

for seniors over 75.

We're making sure students have an easier time

paying back their student debts by not having

to pay back until they're making $35,000 a year.

We're investing in Canadians.

Dawna: Mr. Trudeau, thank you.

Mr. Bernier, your turn.

Mr. Bernier: First of all, I think it is important

to be able to have a discussion about what is

important for Canadians.

We are the only party that will balance the budget

in two years.

All the other parties on this stage will spend

and spend and spend.

That is not a solution.

The credit card is full.

We will do that without cutting services.

We will cut corporate welfare.

All the corporate welfare.

$5 billion that we can save there.

All these political parties, the only promise they do,

they do everything to get your vote.

I promise you to do nothing except balancing the budget.

After that, lower your taxes.

That's the only responsible policy.

Dawna: Mr. Bernier, thanks.

Mr. Singh, to you.

Mr. Singh: I want to thank Scott for the question.

Income inequality is massive.

There is also massive wealth inequality.

And these are not just esoteric, academic discussions.

When those at the very top do not pay their fair share,

when 87 families in Canada have the combined wealth

of three provinces, it hurts families.

It means we don't have the funds to invest

in health care, it means we don'