Minister Dekkers works on a new law for better protection ot transgender people.
A letter from a doctor is no longer needed. If you feel like a woman, then you are a woman.
Jurist Caroline Franssen wrote an article for Trouw, shes afraid the new law will cost women their hard fought women's rights.
Welcome to Caroline Franssen and Sophie Scherke and Nora Uitterlind from Transgender Netwerk Nederland.
Mrs. Franssen, you wrote that the minister puts de safety of women aside, what are you afraid of?
I'm not afraid, I notices that the meaning of the word women disappears
and that people with a penis can call themselves women
What will happen?
For example, they can enter changing rooms where you are with your 11 year old daughter
your daugher can walk into a man into a women's changing room
a trans indetified man without surgery
Surgery is not needed according to the minister
The minister says everyone who feels like a women is a woman
Idon't agree, a woman is biological, we are mammals and can't change sex
A man can't become a woman, he can feel like one
he maybe can behave like one, but he can't be one
But there are men who have surgery and transform to women on the outside
Are they women after surgery?
I think they can't become women
but it's a different situation
Are they allowed in a woman's changing room?
So my 11 year old doesn't see a penis
Yes, and your 11 year old daughter can't be raped, because a penis is needed for rape
Mrs. Schers, you are happy with the new law
Yes, big improvement for transgender people
You are a woman, always felt like a woman and had the body of a man
I never had a body of a man. Mrs. Franssen has ideas of when people are men and women
when your man, you're a man. When you're a woman, you're a woman
when you're none, you're none. You know best
That people think about male and female body characteristics is cultural
It was different in other cultures in history
So in fact you don't want to say you're a woman, you're a human
I am a woman, born as a woman
and I am a biological woman
but some have different ideas because of my body characteristics
they said something different when I was born. Not because I wanted it
but because our culture says so and it fixed.
but it isn't fixed.
What do you think about Caroline's comment
about that 11 year old daugher in the changing room
when she sees male body characteristics like a penis
I think it's shocking
discrimination on the ground of body sex characteristics is illegal in this country
If you say now we're gonna pay attention
then the privacy of transwomen decreases
They you say, no matter what's in transwomen's pants, we decide if you're a woman.
I don't want to know what's in mrs. Franssen"s pants, because it's not my business.
I respect her privacy, but she has an obsession with tranwomen's genitals.
That's extremely false to say that I'm obsessed
Biology and chromosomes determine if you're a man of a woman
that's not a feeling, that's a fact
I'm not obsessed, it's a fact
Sophie claims that she always was a women, and I reject that
I say you were born a man
and everything in your body is male
all your chromosomes, organs and every cell is XY
That discussion is loaded, Sophie will say it's cultural
Biology has no destiny, no purpose
Backt to the changing room
Nora Uitterlinden from Transgender Netwerk sits next to me
This situation is very unlikely to happen, that you see a transwoman in a changing room
who is undressing and showing her body
that situation never happens
So the fearhas no basis
It's very rare, most transwomen don't feel safe to undress in front of others
because they can get negative responses
some experience violence
Many transowomen don't dare to go to the bathroom
So the situation is reversed. Not the 11 year old is shocked
but it's unsafe for transwomen
That's not true, because there's not any evidence of violence against transwomen in those cases
maybe in her head she thinks she's unsafe
There are many incidents worldwide in the US, Canada, Scotland and England
where trans identified men were flashing
showing their genitals
Not all trans indentified men have a problem with their genitals
Autogynephiles get aroused by themselves in female clothes
There are also trans identified men who commit violentcrimes
And who misuse the situation
If I am a man and I say that I feel like a woman
then I can enter that changing room, aren,t you afraid of that, Sophie?
No, in no other country with better laws
Men who want to abuse women can simply marry a woman.
That's easier and we don't forbid marriage.
Now follows opnions of people on the streets
Some women care and some don't
Subtitles continue at 10.36
Caroline Franssen, it seems most think it's a not problem for them.
Yes, until they go to prison and meet a trans identified man that commits sexual assould
There are many examples alreay
There are also examples of intimidation in dressing rooms
And if all men can be women, then they can join women's sports
That would be the end of women's sports
because men are stronger than women
that's why we have women's sports
to give them a leveled playing field
Cece Telfer a runner was ranked somewhere above 300
transformed to a woman
and now a champion
Same goes for Rachel McKinnon and other trans identified men and it's absolutely unfair
That's not my opnion, it's proven that it's not fair
Sophie Schers, Caroline mentions examples in prison
of cases that went wrong and it's unfair in sports
You can't check these cases because they don't exist
what is true is that some transwomen are put in men's prisons
where they face violent rapes and murders, that's the reality
If somebody commited a crime against woman, they they are seperated
So the violence is the other way around
In England women shower with transwomen in prison
Women aren't safe there
Managers of prisons warn against it
and what happens is that every man can say he's a woman and it's done in a breeze
This goes way to far
Even for a handicapped parking card you need a letter from a doctor
There's not a single reason to skip that letter from a doctor
I want back to the sports that was supposed to be unfair
Transowmen can compeed since 12 years in the olympics
Mrs. Franssen can't say that she ever saw one compeed there
The ones that are now in the news are just a few
and they do that in their age group and not in the elite sports we see on TV
Mrs. Franssen creates an unfair opposition between cis and transwomen.
What is a cis woman?
That's you, Nora and mrs. Franssen
I strongly object to be called a cis woman, I'm just a woman
I don't mind cis woman, go on...
Trans, cis, we are all women
No, trans identified men are men
I'm going to the police tomorrow because mrs. Franssen is discriminating against me
Mrs. Franssen thinks she can discriminate against me as a woman on ground of my sex
and my gender identity and that's forbinnen in this country
and that's good that we are protected. What she does here and many like her in England
is discrimination of transgender people
We see in England that violence against trans people increases
This is such a false accusation
Violence against transwomen is done by men and not by women
Our opnion, of women that want to protect women is irrelevant and doesn't change opinions of men
and doesn't change violence against transwomen
I get your point, Sophie want to go to the police...
From now on an irrelevant man starts mansplaining and crying transphobia. Not worth making subtitles for.
Bla bla bla bla etc. etc.