We've been discussing for a long time, but in particular since the November election.
Is there anything that could get a really committed Trump to realize the error of their ways
and to change their minds and to realize that they've been fueling the problem
in which the United States now finds itself? And I get many calls like this from viewers who say,
I don't know how to talk to my aunt or my significant other or my parents or whoever else.
And it's a very difficult thing. And my advice is usually pretty general in nature. But it can
happen, at least in theory, a supposedly a supposed Trump called Seaspan in Tierce,
apparently realizing or at least suspecting that she had been lied to by Donald Trump. And she goes
by Tammy in Boise, Idaho, This could be fake. We don't know. I mean, it's impossible to really know
this could be some kind of troll, but it certainly appears to be real. Take a listen to Tammy from
Idaho in tears as she realizes Trump may have lied to her. What are your thoughts about today?
I just have one question. I want to know if my president lied to me today
and if he didn't want me to tell me. And more importantly,
I want him to tell the family of the woman that got shot and killed today. I voted for his.
I voted for. And sorry. That's Tammy in Boise. So there are many reasons to be curious about
whether this is legit. You and I might be saying, how could anyone doubt Trump has been
lying all along? Obviously, he's been lying all along. But the reality is that tens of millions
don't realize or haven't yet realized that Donald Trump has been lying about everything all along,
including over the last two months, accurately so about supposed voter fraud.
But assuming that this caller is genuine and that this is someone starting to see how
they've fallen for it, understand that they've been bamboozled not just by Trump, but they've
also been bamboozled by Fox News and the other right wing media and that apparatus and by other
Republicans as well. So if this is real, I get all of these calls where people say, how do I talk to
these people? How do I change their minds if and when people reach the moment that Tammy reached?
This is when we talk to them about coming back to reality. This is the opportunity if
if anyone, you know, is fortunate enough to reach a moment like Tammy appears to have reached,
that's when you swoop in and say, yes, he's been lying. I'm so glad you see it.
Come on back. Let's figure it out and work together to prevent it from happening again.
You don't go, you idiot. Of course, that's what's been going on. Now we're all thinking it.
And, you know, in a platform like this, to some degree, it's like, of course, you fools.
How did you not know it? But for everybody who's been asking me, how do you do it? What what do you
do on a personal level? What do you do when the opportunity presents itself? You say,
welcome back. He lied. He lied to all of us. Let's never let this happen again. And most people
aren't ready to accept this. Most of you aren't going to get someone at Tammy's stage
of realizing what has happened. I don't know how you force it. I don't know that you can.
I think there's something sort of about one's predisposition and constitution, whether you
just in the face of contradictory evidence, you double down and double down and double down. And
some folks are more predisposed to hear reason, maybe hearing from Republicans that they trust or
use to trust. Like, you know, Mitt Romney. Arnold Schwarzenegger had a great video
that he put up over the weekend. Chris Christie has now bailed. Maybe they are going to
help turn some of these folks back to reality and make them ready to understand how they've been
bamboozled. I don't know. And so understand that this is not about empathizing with these people
necessarily. They have been part of one of the most toxic political movements in the history of
the United States. Tens of millions of them are nowhere near ready to abandon it like Tammy is.
Don't concern yourself with forgiveness or empathy.
The evidence of Trump's lies has been there forever. I know it, you know it. But if we can
get them back, then we should do it. It should be approached from a pragmatic standpoint. And
one of the real lessons of Trump ism has been how easy it is to fool massive groups of people.
We knew it in cults, for example, the Jim Jones People's Temple, but that was
nine hundred people who went to Guyana and ultimately drank the arsenic laced Kool-Aid.
But here we're talking about tons, tens of millions of people. And we've seen the bamboozling
at minimum. And I spoke about this earlier. I will speak about it with Peter Joseph,
who we're going to be interviewing. We've seen it since the Reagan era, the non-existent welfare
queen who's hanging around driving a Cadillac. I think it is as she pops out kids to make great
profits from food stamps and welfare benefits. It was nonexistent then and it's built and built and
built in the last four years have confirmed that, yeah, it's possible to fool way more
people about way more obviously untrue things. So there are lessons here about cults. There
are lessons here about mass brainwashing. A lot of this is mental health as well. But it's not right
or proper to say these are just crazy people. But there's a mental health component here as well.
We've learned about how ignorance can be quite literally weaponized. If you don't believe I mean,
listen, OK, there's people out there who just have blood lust. And even if they don't believe
the election was stolen, they hear Trump saying, let's go to the capital. They say, great, it's an
opportunity to to to get involved in violence. OK, the vast majority of these folks, though,
if they don't fall for it, was stolen. They're not going to go to the capital and riot because it's
because someone is saying that it was stolen. In other words, the ignorance
and the disinformation that has been promulgated and perpetuated by Trump and the people around him
was literally weaponized into a riot. That's the way we have to understand that. And so,
Tammy, if this is legit, good for her. I know that there are anecdotal
stories from people in my audience of similar things that have happened. But
I think that as much as we would like everybody to have an awakening like Tammy did and sort of
be open to being being given some some reality, some facts, if it took 40 years to get into this,
we're talking about, you know, at least a decade of significant working towards social change,
eight to 10 years. And it's not realistic to imagine that in a in a democracy or something,
at least approximating one, that type of change is going to happen really quickly.
It's just not if it takes a long time to get in, it's going to take some time to get out.
