Practice English Speaking&Listening with: Esther Perel Explains Why People Are Unfaithful

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and more about desire that the fair sometimes are an antidote for death that

even happy people cheat and you said the majority of couples with Affairs

actually stay together yes all very counterintuitive yes of course on the

one hand we would we know that infidelity is a leading cause for

divorce but here is much more infidelity than there are divorces and so most

people stay together at least the first time around but see

this is the same logic as mating in captivity right I didn't write the book

in mating for people who don't get along and also no longer have any sex together

it's the same about affairs it would be easy to say obviously people have

affairs because they don't like their partner and because they have miserable

relationships now if they do they actually divorce these days if they have

affairs is because the relationship is good enough for many other things and

the easy thing would be to say people have no sex because they don't have good

connections people have affairs because they have bad connections that's true

but I see people up to people coming in and say I love my partner the last thing

I want to hurt is hurt my partner so that I want to do is hurt my partner and

I'm having an affair that's a much more complicated question why would people

risk losing everything for a glimmer of what is this link back to your first

talk yes okay this is same it's the continuation mating rappers with the

dilemmas of desire on the inside of relationships and rethinking infidelity

looks at what happens when desire breaks free and anyway it goes looking

elsewhere so it is a natural continuation but the logical thing is to

say people do this because they have problems in the relationship

it's the symptom model an affair happens because there's a flawed relationship

rather than actually grappling with much more complicated imponderables of

existential ennui and complexities of love and desire by which actually

affairs happen and sometimes they have nothing to do with the relationship

relationship is actually perfectly fine that's not what it's about and then you

enter into the question of transgression after all infidelity has existed since

marriage was invented so marriage has changed continuously and infidelity has

a tenacious a tenacious nasteria skill only Envy you know and that's a line

that has become very very clear that there's a robustness of infidelity no

single model of infidelity of marriage manages to outdo like a race no matter

how much marriage tries to adapt to the times infidelity tops it there's always

another way so now we need to look at the power of transgression what is it

about us from Adam and Yvonne that wants to break free out of the very

constraints which we have sometimes created which yesterday we thought were

the ones we wanted I wanted nothing more and this family and these children and

this secure job and this big hole home I have and all of that and then one day

all of that feels so meaningless it's been it's been the shackles it's been

the thing I wanted to break I have done always what was expected of me and now I

want to do what I really want to do and that narrative goes back to what I

talked about when I spoke about what people regret when they die you know

it's you hear the conversation between the dutiful self and the selfish self

between the thinking about others and the thinking about me and the places

where they go together and the places where they clash and so here is this

thing called infidelity which by definition is an act of entitlement and

selfishness but if there's a lot more to do with what I do for me

then what I'm actually doing to you and yet when it is uncovered what it does to

you is so shattering and so gutting so painful more so than it ever was because

socially it breaks everything down you know I was in Morocco last week

Mahesh and I had a conversation with a young group of young women and young men

in their 20s from the villages actually who were working in the city and at one

point I said you know in America in the West in general the push today is that

if a woman can finally leave she doesn't just have to stay there and bear her

misery she should just get out and so one of the girls said to me may madam if

we had to divorce all of the unfaithful men all of Morocco would be divorced

I just thought here is the difference you know I am fascinated by how we one

day want certain things and how the next day those are the things that we think

are imprisoning us how we can have multiple loves how we can have different

kinds of loves how we became one person here and then we remember that there are

all these other parts of us and they suddenly manifest elsewhere how sexual

revolutions don't happen at home and how the same person who here is completely

sexually shut down in this other place is lustful and free and eager and why

they can't bring it home and all these imperfections and some level you would

say that infidelity is an imperfect compromise to imperfect lives is it

almost just something endemic of us as a society I was up setting up our own

rules and then wanting to break them but it has always existed and we've always

had rules and we've always wanted to break rules the rules change and you

know let's be very clear fidelity was an imposition on women in order to know

about patrimony and lineage you know now that we can't now that you can't prove

it by the children you prove it by the exclusiveness but it's changed from an

imposition on women to a dual gender conviction instead of giving more

freedom to women we've taken the freedoms of men

away put it like that what was the reaction to your talk and what were you

trying to get people to take away the I wanted a conversation that will embrace

complexity as always I think I deal with subjects that are complicated and that

people often want to simplify it to make them reductionistic and simplistic and

are often very polarized so the conversation about infidelity becomes a

conversation about villain and victim and good and bad and perpetrator and

saint and I think it is not the truth and I don't believe that these kinds of

conversations that are polarized that are extreme in which you take the

extreme example and you make that become the norm and you think that if you don't

condemn it means that you condone and if you try to understand it's as if you're

justifying these kinds of discourses they exist in politics they exist in

society they exist in the conversation about infidelity and they breed

narrowness judgmental-ness and discrimination and they don't help

couples and families and children that's for sure so that's what I see I see

these all-or-nothing conversations and I'm thinking that's an example of an

authoritarian discourse of a rigid narrow and I get drawn there and I want

to loosen this up because it's it's a lie it's dishonest it's a it's a

dishonest way to looking at dishonesty right and it doesn't capture the nuances

of the human heart which is really what infidelity is about the question is not

is it good or is it bad that question is what do we learn about love lust and

commitment by studying infidelity it is an amazing window the same way that

sexuality is a window right if you look at sexuality from a societal point of

view you would say that the most progressive aspect of a society in our

culture large themselves around the changes that take place around

sexuality covering your head abortion nakedness sexual education homosexual

marriage all of these us around the sexual window

and the most traditional archaic side of a society also large themselves if you

want to control a population control the women control what they can wear how

much skin they can show what comes what kind of interaction they can have with

men and who has the education and the information of the children and the

sexuality of children who owns the sexuality of children and how much does

an adult have a right on the sexuality of children in an abusive way and all of

that it is so foundational it's almost amazing how little we talk about it when

you see how essential it is to progress and change and to tradition and

rootedness and infidelity is right in there with that because infidelity has

been one of the ways we control sex if there is a taboo against infidelity is

because somebody understood human nature we are fickle

we are curious and we are greedy we are not generally meant to stay put in one

place there would be no taboo if there was no sizable threat and what's more

threatening than human nature what are some of the other myths about sexuality

but some things that we don't talk about or don't understand to watch the rest of

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