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BIG NEWS NIGHT. IM GOING TO BEGIN WITH THIS

IM GOING TO BEGIN WITH THIS LEGAL FACT.

LEGAL FACT. TODAY, WE REACHED AN INFLECTION

TODAY, WE REACHED AN INFLECTION POINT IN BOTH THE MUELLER PROBE

POINT IN BOTH THE MUELLER PROBE AND THE LEGAL HUNTING OF

AND THE LEGAL HUNTING OF PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS MOST

PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS MOST SENIOR AIDES.

SENIOR AIDES. LAST NIGHT PRESIDENT TRUMP WENT

LAST NIGHT PRESIDENT TRUMP WENT TO SLEEP WITH A POTENTIAL PARDON

TO SLEEP WITH A POTENTIAL PARDON IN HIS BACK POCKET IF RFOR THE M

IN HIS BACK POCKET IF RFOR THE M GUILTY, HUMILIATED TEAM.

GUILTY, HUMILIATED TEAM. HE FACES A LEGAL NIGHTMARE FOR

HE FACES A LEGAL NIGHTMARE FOR AN INCUP BENTSINCUMBENT.

AN INCUP BENTSINCUMBENT. THE FIRST CHARGES AGAINST AN

THE FIRST CHARGES AGAINST AN AIDS AS THEY INDICT PAUL

AIDS AS THEY INDICT PAUL MANAFORT ON CHARGES THAT THE

MANAFORT ON CHARGES THAT THE PRESIDENT CANNOT PARDON.

PRESIDENT CANNOT PARDON. NO DEBATE.

NO DEBATE. LEGAL FACT.

LEGAL FACT. WERE GOING TO GET INTO WHY THAT

WERE GOING TO GET INTO WHY THAT MATTERS.

MATTERS. THAT BOMBSHELL COMPLETELY

THAT BOMBSHELL COMPLETELY CHANGES THE ENORMOUS PRESSURE ON

CHANGES THE ENORMOUS PRESSURE ON MR. MANAFORT AND THE WHITE

MR. MANAFORT AND THE WHITE HOUSES ENTIRE CALCULUS AND

HOUSES ENTIRE CALCULUS AND LEVERAGE UP UNTIL TODAY.

LEVERAGE UP UNTIL TODAY. THIS WOMAN SLELBOMBSHELL DROPPED

THIS WOMAN SLELBOMBSHELL DROPPED AFTER HIS TEAM WALKED OUT OF

AFTER HIS TEAM WALKED OUT OF COURT.

COURT. THE SCENE FAR HARSHER WHEN THE

THE SCENE FAR HARSHER WHEN THE NEWS OF THE LIGHTER SENTENCE

NEWS OF THE LIGHTER SENTENCE BROKE.

BROKE. THE JUDGE ADDING ABOUT THREE AND

THE JUDGE ADDING ABOUT THREE AND A HALF MORE YEARS TO THAT SNANS

A HALF MORE YEARS TO THAT SNANS HE

HE SENTENCE LAST WEEK WP.

SENTENCE LAST WEEK WP. >> PAUL MANAFORT HAS RECEIVED 47

>> PAUL MANAFORT HAS RECEIVED 47 MONTHS IN PRISON FROM THIS JUDGE

MONTHS IN PRISON FROM THIS JUDGE IN VIRGINIA.

IN VIRGINIA. 47 MONTHS.

47 MONTHS. A FAIRLY LIGHT SENTENCE AS

A FAIRLY LIGHT SENTENCE AS COMPARED TO THE GUIDELINES UP TO

COMPARED TO THE GUIDELINES UP TO 24 YEARS.

24 YEARS. >> JUDGE AMY JACKSON HAS SFLNS

>> JUDGE AMY JACKSON HAS SFLNS SENTENCED HIM TO ADDITIONAL

SENTENCED HIM TO ADDITIONAL THREE AND A HALF YEARS.

THREE AND A HALF YEARS. HELL GET OUT OF PRISON WHEN

HELL GET OUT OF PRISON WHEN HES 75 OR 76 YEARS OLD.

HES 75 OR 76 YEARS OLD. >> PAUL MANAFORT WITH TODAYS

>> PAUL MANAFORT WITH TODAYS NEWS SET FOR INCARCERATION ON

NEWS SET FOR INCARCERATION ON THE FEDERAL CHARGES.

THE FEDERAL CHARGES. THIS IS IMPORTANT AS YOU HEAR

THIS IS IMPORTANT AS YOU HEAR EVERY ONE DEBATE WHAT BOB

EVERY ONE DEBATE WHAT BOB MUELLER HAS DONE.

MUELLER HAS DONE. THATS THE HARSHEST SENTENCE OF

THATS THE HARSHEST SENTENCE OF ANYONE IN THE MUELLER PROBE THUS

ANYONE IN THE MUELLER PROBE THUS FAR.

FAR. ITS CLOSE TO THE LONGEST

ITS CLOSE TO THE LONGEST SENTENCE FOR ANYONE IN ANY

SENTENCE FOR ANYONE IN ANY SPECIAL PROSECUTOR PROBE WHICH

SPECIAL PROSECUTOR PROBE WHICH WAS ABOUT EIGHT YEARS IN ALL OF

WAS ABOUT EIGHT YEARS IN ALL OF WATERGATE.

WATERGATE. HIS LAWYERS KNOW THIS IS A LUJHU

HIS LAWYERS KNOW THIS IS A LUJHU SET BACK WHO HAS BEEN TRYING TO

SET BACK WHO HAS BEEN TRYING TO DOWN PLAY HIS OWN GUILTY AND

DOWN PLAY HIS OWN GUILTY AND MAKE THESE NO COLLUSION

MAKE THESE NO COLLUSION ARGUMENTS AIMED AT THE WHITE

ARGUMENTS AIMED AT THE WHITE HOUSE FOR A FEDERAL PRESIDENTIAL

HOUSE FOR A FEDERAL PRESIDENTIAL PARDON.

PARDON. THATS THE CONTEXT FOR SOMETHING

THATS THE CONTEXT FOR SOMETHING ELSE YOU NEED TO SEE.

ELSE YOU NEED TO SEE. THE BIZARRE SCENE PLAYING OUT AS

THE BIZARRE SCENE PLAYING OUT AS MANAFORTS LAWYER STEPPED OUT

MANAFORTS LAWYER STEPPED OUT TODAY TO ADDRESS THE PUBLIC AND

TODAY TO ADDRESS THE PUBLIC AND PROTESTERS AND TRY TO MAKE A

PROTESTERS AND TRY TO MAKE A MISLEADING CLAIM HATHAT HE ARGUE

MISLEADING CLAIM HATHAT HE ARGUE THE COURTS RULING ON MANAFORTS

THE COURTS RULING ON MANAFORTS PRISON TIME MADE A RULING ON

PRISON TIME MADE A RULING ON RUSSIAN COLLUSION.

RUSSIAN COLLUSION. THE COURTS DID NOT DO THAT

THE COURTS DID NOT DO THAT SINCE THESE WERENT COLLUSION

SINCE THESE WERENT COLLUSION CASES AND MANAFORTS LAWYER

CASES AND MANAFORTS LAWYER FOUND HIMSELF FACT CHECK AND

FOUND HIMSELF FACT CHECK AND SHOUTED DOWN BY PROTESTERS.

SHOUTED DOWN BY PROTESTERS. >> FOR ANYONE WHO WAS IN THE

>> FOR ANYONE WHO WAS IN THE COURTROOM TODAY WHAT IM ABOUT

COURTROOM TODAY WHAT IM ABOUT TO SAY WILL NOT BE A SURPRISE.

TO SAY WILL NOT BE A SURPRISE. JUDGE JACKSON CONCEDED THERE WAS

JUDGE JACKSON CONCEDED THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF ANY RUSSIAN

NO EVIDENCE OF ANY RUSSIAN COLLUSION IN THIS CASE.

COLLUSION IN THIS CASE. >> HES A TRAITOR.

>> HES A TRAITOR. >> NO EVIDENCE.

>> NO EVIDENCE. >> TRAITOR.

>> TRAITOR. >> NO COLLUSION.

>> NO COLLUSION. >> LIAR.

>> LIAR. >> YOURE A LIAR.

>> YOURE A LIAR. >> LIAR.

>> LIAR. >> THATS NOT WHAT SHE SAID.

>> THATS NOT WHAT SHE SAID. >> VERY SAD.

>> VERY SAD. >> THATS NOT WHAT SHE SAID.

>> THATS NOT WHAT SHE SAID. >> MANAFORT IS A TRAITOR.

>> MANAFORT IS A TRAITOR. >> MANAFORTS A TRAITOR.

>> MANAFORTS A TRAITOR. >> ITS TOTALLY UNNECESSARY.

>> ITS TOTALLY UNNECESSARY. >> THATS NOT WHAT SHE SAID THEY

>> THATS NOT WHAT SHE SAID THEY CHANTED ABOUT JUDGE JACKSON.

CHANTED ABOUT JUDGE JACKSON. THE PROTESTERS WERE RIGHT.

THE PROTESTERS WERE RIGHT. THE JUDGE REBUKED MANAFORTS

THE JUDGE REBUKED MANAFORTS TEAM FOR THEIR COLLUSION.

TEAM FOR THEIR COLLUSION. WE HAVE MORE ON THAT.

WE HAVE MORE ON THAT. THE TOP HEADLINE WAS THIS JUDGE

THE TOP HEADLINE WAS THIS JUDGE ROASTED PAUL MANAFORT FOR HIS

ROASTED PAUL MANAFORT FOR HIS NOW CONFESSED CRIMES.

NOW CONFESSED CRIMES. REBUKING THE NUMBER OF LIE, THE

REBUKING THE NUMBER OF LIE, THE AMOUNT OF FRAUD, THE

AMOUNT OF FRAUD, THE EXTRAORDINARY AMOUNT OF MONEY

EXTRAORDINARY AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT SHE DETAILED WAS AT STAKE

THAT SHE DETAILED WAS AT STAKE IN HIS FELONIES AND JUSTIFIED

IN HIS FELONIES AND JUSTIFIED THIS MEDIUM TO HARSH SENTENCE

THIS MEDIUM TO HARSH SENTENCE BECAUSE SHE SAID MANAFORT NEVER

BECAUSE SHE SAID MANAFORT NEVER ACCEPTED RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS

ACCEPTED RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS OFFENSE.

OFFENSE. ULTIMATELY BACKING AWAY FROM THE

ULTIMATELY BACKING AWAY FROM THE FACTS.

FACTS. AS A LEGAL MATTER, ALL OF THAT

AS A LEGAL MATTER, ALL OF THAT WOULD HAVE MADE THIS THE MOST

WOULD HAVE MADE THIS THE MOST DEVASTATING SINGLE DAY IN THE

DEVASTATING SINGLE DAY IN THE MUELLER PROBE THUS FAR.

MUELLER PROBE THUS FAR. THE HIGHEST JAIL SENTENCE, THE

THE HIGHEST JAIL SENTENCE, THE MOST DIRECT REBUKE ESPECIALLY

MOST DIRECT REBUKE ESPECIALLY SINCE JACKSON WAS TOUGHER THAN

SINCE JACKSON WAS TOUGHER THAN THE FEDERAL JUDGE LAST WEEK IN

THE FEDERAL JUDGE LAST WEEK IN VIRGINIA.

VIRGINIA. FOR REASONS THAT IM ABOUT TO

FOR REASONS THAT IM ABOUT TO EXPLAIN TO YOU RIGHT NOW, THIS

EXPLAIN TO YOU RIGHT NOW, THIS WORSE DAY EVER ALREADY FOR THE

WORSE DAY EVER ALREADY FOR THE PUBLIC SCHOOLER PROBE GOT MUCH,

PUBLIC SCHOOLER PROBE GOT MUCH, MUCH WORSE WITH SOMETHING YOU

MUCH WORSE WITH SOMETHING YOU RARELY SEE.

RARELY SEE. A NEW SEPARATE, PARDON PROOF

A NEW SEPARATE, PARDON PROOF INDICTMENT OF PAUL MANAFORT BY

INDICTMENT OF PAUL MANAFORT BY THE TOP PROSECUTORS IN NEW YORK.

THE TOP PROSECUTORS IN NEW YORK. YOU CANT MAKE UP HOW MUCH IS

YOU CANT MAKE UP HOW MUCH IS HAPPENING.

HAPPENING. 16 NEW COUNTS RIGHT HERE IN THIS

16 NEW COUNTS RIGHT HERE IN THIS MORTGAGE FRAUDS CASE.

MORTGAGE FRAUDS CASE. THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING.

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING. VERY EXISTENCE OF THESE CHARGES

VERY EXISTENCE OF THESE CHARGES WHICH IS NEW TONIGHT REDUCE ANY

WHICH IS NEW TONIGHT REDUCE ANY MOTIVATION FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP

MOTIVATION FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP TO TRY TO RUSH TO TO PARDON

TO TRY TO RUSH TO TO PARDON MANAFORT ON THE FEDERAL CRIMES

MANAFORT ON THE FEDERAL CRIMES IF HE COULD SIT IN A DIFFERENT

IF HE COULD SIT IN A DIFFERENT JAIL FOR OTHER CRIMES THAT TRUMP

JAIL FOR OTHER CRIMES THAT TRUMP CANNOT PARDON.

CANNOT PARDON. AS THIS SHOW AND MY COLLEAGUE

AS THIS SHOW AND MY COLLEAGUE RACHEL MADDOW A AND MANY LEGAL

RACHEL MADDOW A AND MANY LEGAL EXPERTS HAVE NOTED, MANAFORTS

EXPERTS HAVE NOTED, MANAFORTS TEAM HAD BEEN USING THEIR FINAL

TEAM HAD BEEN USING THEIR FINAL FILEINGS TO PITCH A FEDERAL

FILEINGS TO PITCH A FEDERAL PARDON.

PARDON. THESE STATE CHARGES UNDERCUT

THESE STATE CHARGES UNDERCUT EVERYTHING THEY HAVE BEEN TRYING

EVERYTHING THEY HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DO.

TO DO. IF THEEDSSE CHARGES STICK THAT

IF THEEDSSE CHARGES STICK THAT COULD BE CHECK MATE FOR

COULD BE CHECK MATE FOR MANAFORTS STRATEGY AND TO THE

MANAFORTS STRATEGY AND TO THE EXTENT TRUMP IS GOING ALONG WITH

EXTENT TRUMP IS GOING ALONG WITH IT WHICH MAY BE WHY MR.

IT WHICH MAY BE WHY MR. MANAFORTS LAWYER WHO HAS BEEN

MANAFORTS LAWYER WHO HAS BEEN SO QUICK TO MAKE OUTLANDISH AND

SO QUICK TO MAKE OUTLANDISH AND FALSE CLAIMS, I WANT TO SHOW YOU

FALSE CLAIMS, I WANT TO SHOW YOU THIS TONIGHT.

THIS TONIGHT. HE COULDNT EVEN MUSTER ANY

HE COULDNT EVEN MUSTER ANY RESPONSE TO THE LARGEST QUESTION

RESPONSE TO THE LARGEST QUESTION HAUNTING TRUMP WORLD RIGHT NOW,

HAUNTING TRUMP WORLD RIGHT NOW, HOW DO YOU COUNTER PROSECUTOR IN

HOW DO YOU COUNTER PROSECUTOR IN A JURISDICTION YOU DONT

A JURISDICTION YOU DONT CONTROL?

CONTROL? WHERE YOUR PARDONS DONT APPLY.

WHERE YOUR PARDONS DONT APPLY. >> DO YOU HAVE COMMENT ON THE

>> DO YOU HAVE COMMENT ON THE INDICTMENT IN NEW YORK?

INDICTMENT IN NEW YORK? >> NO COMMENT.

>> NO COMMENT. NOT YET ANY WAY.

NOT YET ANY WAY. IM ABOUT TO GET AN UPDATE ON

IM ABOUT TO GET AN UPDATE ON ALL OF THIS.

ALL OF THIS. THE BREAKING STORY OUT OF

THE BREAKING STORY OUT OF WASHINGTON BE JULIA REPORTING

WASHINGTON BE JULIA REPORTING LIVE OUTSIDE THE JUSTICE

LIVE OUTSIDE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.

DEPARTMENT. A BUSY BUILDING TO BE SURE.

A BUSY BUILDING TO BE SURE. WE BEGIN WITH DAVID CORN,

WE BEGIN WITH DAVID CORN, WASHINGTON BUREAU CLEEFHIEF FOR

WASHINGTON BUREAU CLEEFHIEF FOR MOTHER JONES.

MOTHER JONES. DAVID, WHATS BIGGER?

DAVID, WHATS BIGGER? THIS WATERGATE LEVEL HISTORIC

THIS WATERGATE LEVEL HISTORIC JAIL SENTENCE FOR PAUL MANAFORT

JAIL SENTENCE FOR PAUL MANAFORT OR HIM GETTING HIT THE SAME DAY

OR HIM GETTING HIT THE SAME DAY WITH THESE PARDON PROOF CHARGES?

WITH THESE PARDON PROOF CHARGES? >> ITS A DESERT TOPPING AND A

>> ITS A DESERT TOPPING AND A FLOOR WAX.

FLOOR WAX. THEY ARE GIGANTIC STORIES IN ANY

THEY ARE GIGANTIC STORIES IN ANY ERA OTHER THAN TRUMP ERA THIS

ERA OTHER THAN TRUMP ERA THIS STORY WOULD BE AROUND FOR WEEKS

STORY WOULD BE AROUND FOR WEEKS AND JUST BE TREMENDOUS.

AND JUST BE TREMENDOUS. IM AFRAID WITHIN A DAY OR TWO

IM AFRAID WITHIN A DAY OR TWO WELL MOVE ONTO 23 OTHER

WELL MOVE ONTO 23 OTHER SCANDALS.

SCANDALS. YOU HAVE THE GUY WHO RAN THE

YOU HAVE THE GUY WHO RAN THE CAMPAIGN FOR THE PRESIDENT OF

CAMPAIGN FOR THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES GOING TO JAIL

THE UNITED STATES GOING TO JAIL AND 7 YEARS, SOME PEOPLE THINK

AND 7 YEARS, SOME PEOPLE THINK IS A LIGHT SENTENCE.

IS A LIGHT SENTENCE. MAYBE IT IS GIVEN THE GRAVITY OF

MAYBE IT IS GIVEN THE GRAVITY OF THE CRIMES.

THE CRIMES. ITS STILL A LONG TIME.

ITS STILL A LONG TIME. HE TURVENS 70 ON APRIL 1st.

HE TURVENS 70 ON APRIL 1st. HES LOOKING AT SPENDING A TENth

HES LOOKING AT SPENDING A TENth OF HIS LIFE BEHIND BARS.

OF HIS LIFE BEHIND BARS. THATS A BIG DEAL AND IT DOES

THATS A BIG DEAL AND IT DOES REFLECT UPON TRUMP AND THE

REFLECT UPON TRUMP AND THE CAMPAIGN AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT

CAMPAIGN AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE COLLUSION ASPECT LATER AS

THE COLLUSION ASPECT LATER AS YOU WANT TO DO.

YOU WANT TO DO. >> WELL GET TO COLLUSION.

>> WELL GET TO COLLUSION. STAY WITH ME.

STAY WITH ME. WALK US THROUGH WHAT IT MEANS

WALK US THROUGH WHAT IT MEANS THAT THESE INDEPENDENT NEW YORK

THAT THESE INDEPENDENT NEW YORK PROSECUTORS ARE ON THE CASE

PROSECUTORS ARE ON THE CASE STARTING TODAY.

STARTING TODAY. >> IT MEANS ITS PARDON PROOF

>> IT MEANS ITS PARDON PROOF NOW.

NOW. ONCE THE MANHATTAN D.A. GETS ON

ONCE THE MANHATTAN D.A. GETS ON THE CASE, IF THESE CHARGES

THE CASE, IF THESE CHARGES STICK, THAT MEANS ANY JAIL

STICK, THAT MEANS ANY JAIL SOMETIME HE HAS TO SERVE BECAUSE

SOMETIME HE HAS TO SERVE BECAUSE OF THESE CHARGES ARE NOT SUBJECT

OF THESE CHARGES ARE NOT SUBJECT TO PRESIDENTIAL PARDON.

TO PRESIDENTIAL PARDON. ITS UNLIKELY AND ONE OF THE

ITS UNLIKELY AND ONE OF THE THINGS IN THE CHARGES HERE

THINGS IN THE CHARGES HERE MANAFORTS ACCUSED OF VARIOUS

MANAFORTS ACCUSED OF VARIOUS KINDS OF REAL ESTATE FRAUD THAT

KINDS OF REAL ESTATE FRAUD THAT INSPIRED JACKING UP THE RENTS IN

INSPIRED JACKING UP THE RENTS IN NEW YORK CITY.

NEW YORK CITY. YOU PUT MANAFORT IN FRONT OF A

YOU PUT MANAFORT IN FRONT OF A NEW YORK JURY AND ACCUSE HIM OF

NEW YORK JURY AND ACCUSE HIM OF JACKING UP RENTS, HES GOING

JACKING UP RENTS, HES GOING AWAY FOR A LONG TIME.

AWAY FOR A LONG TIME. >> BASED ON YOUR KNOWLEDGE,

>> BASED ON YOUR KNOWLEDGE, PEOPLE CAN LIKE OR DISLIKE WHAT

PEOPLE CAN LIKE OR DISLIKE WHAT THE TWO JUDGES DID.

THE TWO JUDGES DID. WE SEE DISPARITIES THERE.

WE SEE DISPARITIES THERE. BASED ON YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THIS,

BASED ON YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THIS, HOW ARE JUDGES IN NEW YORK GOING

HOW ARE JUDGES IN NEW YORK GOING TO DEAL WITH MR. MANAFORT IN

TO DEAL WITH MR. MANAFORT IN YOUR UNDERSTANDING?

YOUR UNDERSTANDING? >> I ALSO WANTED JUDGE AMY

>> I ALSO WANTED JUDGE AMY JACKSON TO BE MORE LIKE JUDGE

JACKSON TO BE MORE LIKE JUDGE SAM JACKSON.

SAM JACKSON. I WANTED A FULL ON YES, HE

I WANTED A FULL ON YES, HE DESERVE TO DIE AND I HOPE HE

DESERVE TO DIE AND I HOPE HE BURNS IN HELL.

BURNS IN HELL. THATS NOT WHAT SHES ABOUT.

THATS NOT WHAT SHES ABOUT. I THINK JUDGE WILL BE REASONABLE

I THINK JUDGE WILL BE REASONABLE ABOUT THIS CASE.

ABOUT THIS CASE. THEY WILL NOT PRE-JUDGE.

THEY WILL NOT PRE-JUDGE. THEYRE NOT GOING TO PUT THEIR

THEYRE NOT GOING TO PUT THEIR THUMB ON THE SCALE.

THUMB ON THE SCALE. >> DO YOU THINK HES LOOKING AT

>> DO YOU THINK HES LOOKING AT YEARS?

YEARS? >> I ABSOLUTELY THINK HES

>> I ABSOLUTELY THINK HES LOOKING AT YEARS.

LOOKING AT YEARS. >> WERE TALKING SEVEN YEARS

>> WERE TALKING SEVEN YEARS PLUS HERE ON THE SENTENCE.

PLUS HERE ON THE SENTENCE. THAT SITS.

THAT SITS. >> NO REASON TO RUN THE

>> NO REASON TO RUN THE SENTENCES CONCURRENTLY.

SENTENCES CONCURRENTLY. THERES NO REASON TO DO IT

THERES NO REASON TO DO IT CONCURRENTLY BECAUSE THE STATE

CONCURRENTLY BECAUSE THE STATE CHARGES ARISE FROM DIFFERENT

CHARGES ARISE FROM DIFFERENT CRIMINAL ACTS.

CRIMINAL ACTS. >> DAVID, HOLD ON, I WANT TO

>> DAVID, HOLD ON, I WANT TO PLAY THE PRESIDENT ASKED ABOUT

PLAY THE PRESIDENT ASKED ABOUT THIS.

THIS. I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR AS WE

I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR AS WE TAKE IN WHAT I THINK IS AN

TAKE IN WHAT I THINK IS AN INFLECTION POINT, GAME CHANGING

INFLECTION POINT, GAME CHANGING NIGHT ON THE MUELLER PROBE.

NIGHT ON THE MUELLER PROBE. THIS IS A PRESIDENT WHO IS

THIS IS A PRESIDENT WHO IS HIGHLY SOPHISTICATED ABOUT HOW

HIGHLY SOPHISTICATED ABOUT HOW TO DEAL WITH CRIMINAL

TO DEAL WITH CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS.

INVESTIGATIONS. THIS IS A PRESIDENT WHO HAD HIS

THIS IS A PRESIDENT WHO HAD HIS OI

OI EYE ON SDNY DURING HIS

EYE ON SDNY DURING HIS TRANSITION FOR REASONS THAT

TRANSITION FOR REASONS THAT REMAIN SUSPICION AS WE

REMAIN SUSPICION AS WE DOCUMENTED ON THE SHOW.

DOCUMENTED ON THE SHOW. HERE HE WAS BASED ON WHAT WE

HERE HE WAS BASED ON WHAT WE KNOW PRETENDING NOT TO

KNOW PRETENDING NOT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WE BELIEVE HE

UNDERSTAND WHAT WE BELIEVE HE DOES UNDERSTAND ABOUT HOW BAD

DOES UNDERSTAND ABOUT HOW BAD THIS NEWS IS ON MANAFORT WITH

THIS NEWS IS ON MANAFORT WITH PARDON PROOF CHARGES TODAY.

PARDON PROOF CHARGES TODAY. TAKE A LOOK.

TAKE A LOOK. >> THEYRE GOING AFTER HIM FOR

>> THEYRE GOING AFTER HIM FOR STATE TAXES.

STATE TAXES. >> THEYRE GOING AFTER HIM IN

>> THEYRE GOING AFTER HIM IN NEW YORK STATE.

NEW YORK STATE. HE FACED FEDERAL CHARGES.

HE FACED FEDERAL CHARGES. RIGHT AFTER THE SENTENCING TOOK

RIGHT AFTER THE SENTENCING TOOK PLACE HERE IN WASHINGTON, D.C.

PLACE HERE IN WASHINGTON, D.C. THE MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY

THE MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY FILED STATE CHARGES AGAINST HIM

FILED STATE CHARGES AGAINST HIM WHICH WOULD SEIZE TO BE A WAY TO

WHICH WOULD SEIZE TO BE A WAY TO GET AROUND THE EFFECT OF ANY

GET AROUND THE EFFECT OF ANY PARDON.

PARDON. >> I DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT

>> I DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THAT.

THAT. ILL TAKE A LOOK AT IT.

ILL TAKE A LOOK AT IT. >> DAVID.

>> DAVID. >> I STILL THINK THERES A VALUE

>> I STILL THINK THERES A VALUE TO A TRUMP PARDON WITH MANAFORT.

TO A TRUMP PARDON WITH MANAFORT. I DONT KNOW HOW MANY YEARS HE

I DONT KNOW HOW MANY YEARS HE MAY END UP WITH, IF CONVICTED,

MAY END UP WITH, IF CONVICTED, OF THESE NEW CHARGES IN NEW YORK

OF THESE NEW CHARGES IN NEW YORK CITY.

CITY. EVEN SO, IF HES TO GET FIVE

EVEN SO, IF HES TO GET FIVE YEARS, GETTING RID OF THE SEVEN

YEARS, GETTING RID OF THE SEVEN YEARS IN THE FEDERAL CHARGES

YEARS IN THE FEDERAL CHARGES THERES A BIG DIFFERENCE WHEN

THERES A BIG DIFFERENCE WHEN YOURE 70 LOOKING AT FIVE YEARS

YOURE 70 LOOKING AT FIVE YEARS OR 12 YEARS.

OR 12 YEARS. >> SURE.

>> SURE. I DONT DISAGREE WITH YOU.

I DONT DISAGREE WITH YOU. THE POINT TONIGHT BEFORE YOU GO

THE POINT TONIGHT BEFORE YOU GO DEEP IN THE WEEDS IS THERES NO

DEEP IN THE WEEDS IS THERES NO GOOD RATIONALE FOR DONALD TRUMP

GOOD RATIONALE FOR DONALD TRUMP WHO HAS PROVEN TO BE QUITE WILY

WHO HAS PROVEN TO BE QUITE WILY ABOUT DEALING WITH LAW

ABOUT DEALING WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT TO RUSH OUT A

ENFORCEMENT TO RUSH OUT A FEDERAL PARDON.

FEDERAL PARDON. DOEBT DONT YOU THINK THATS

DOEBT DONT YOU THINK THATS LESS LIKELY SOONER BECAUSE OF

LESS LIKELY SOONER BECAUSE OF THIS HEDGE?

THIS HEDGE? >> PERHAPS.

>> PERHAPS. IF MANAFORT IS STILL HOPING TO

IF MANAFORT IS STILL HOPING TO KEEP QUIET AND NOT TELL THE

KEEP QUIET AND NOT TELL THE TRUTH AS THE JUDGE ACCUSED HIM

TRUTH AS THE JUDGE ACCUSED HIM OF DOING IN THE FEDERAL CASE.

OF DOING IN THE FEDERAL CASE. HE STILL HAS AN INCENTIVE TO

HE STILL HAS AN INCENTIVE TO MAYBE STICK TO THAT POSITION SO

MAYBE STICK TO THAT POSITION SO WHETHER HE GETS IT NOW OR A YEAR

WHETHER HE GETS IT NOW OR A YEAR FROM NOW TO GET RID OF THAT

FROM NOW TO GET RID OF THAT FEDERAL TIME MAY MEAN A LOT TO

FEDERAL TIME MAY MEAN A LOT TO HIM IF HE ENDS UP GETTING SOME

HIM IF HE ENDS UP GETTING SOME NEW YORK STATE TIME.

NEW YORK STATE TIME. >> IT MAY MEAN LESS.

>> IT MAY MEAN LESS. IN OTHER WORDS, WERE NOW INTO

IN OTHER WORDS, WERE NOW INTO DEPENDS ON THE FUTURE.

DEPENDS ON THE FUTURE. IF HE GETS HIT WITH FIVE PLUS

IF HE GETS HIT WITH FIVE PLUS YEARS IN NEW YORK, ITS A WHOLE

YEARS IN NEW YORK, ITS A WHOLE DIFFERENT BALL GAME.

DIFFERENT BALL GAME. THATS WHY THIS IS SUCH A

THATS WHY THIS IS SUCH A FASCINATING TURN.

FASCINATING TURN. STAY WITH ME.

STAY WITH ME. LETS LOOK AT HOW THIS FITS INTO

LETS LOOK AT HOW THIS FITS INTO THE BUILDING BEHIND YOU.

THE BUILDING BEHIND YOU. PEOPLE SOMETIMES FORGET.

PEOPLE SOMETIMES FORGET. BOB MUELLER WORKS FOR THE

BOB MUELLER WORKS FOR THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.

JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. HE REPORTS INTO THE TRUMP

HE REPORTS INTO THE TRUMP ATTORNEY GENERAL BILL BARR.

ATTORNEY GENERAL BILL BARR. THERE WOULD LOOK LIKE A BIG

THERE WOULD LOOK LIKE A BIG MUELLER VICTORY.

MUELLER VICTORY. WELL PUT IT ON THE SCREEN FOR

WELL PUT IT ON THE SCREEN FOR YOUR ANALYSIS.

YOUR ANALYSIS. THIS CASE STARTED WITH

THIS CASE STARTED WITH PAPADOPOULOS GETTING A COUPLE OF

PAPADOPOULOS GETTING A COUPLE OF WEEKS.

WEEKS. COHEN WAS HANDED OFF THREE YEARS

COHEN WAS HANDED OFF THREE YEARS IN NEW YORK.

IN NEW YORK. THE SEVEN AND A HALF YEARS FOR

THE SEVEN AND A HALF YEARS FOR MANAFORT HERE IS BY FAR THE MOST

MANAFORT HERE IS BY FAR THE MOST SIGNIFICANT THING MUELLER HAS

SIGNIFICANT THING MUELLER HAS DONE AT A TIME THAT WE STILL

DONE AT A TIME THAT WE STILL AWAIT SENTENCING FOR GATES AND

AWAIT SENTENCING FOR GATES AND FLYNN.

FLYNN. JULIA, HOW BIG OF A VICTORY IS

JULIA, HOW BIG OF A VICTORY IS THIS FOR BOB MUELLER?

THIS FOR BOB MUELLER? >> Reporter: ABSOLUTELY.

>> Reporter: ABSOLUTELY. TWO BIG VICTORIES TODAY.

TWO BIG VICTORIES TODAY. FIRST THE MANAFORT AND THE NEWS

FIRST THE MANAFORT AND THE NEWS FROM THE MANHATTAN D.A.

FROM THE MANHATTAN D.A. IT SENDS A MESSAGE TO OTHER

IT SENDS A MESSAGE TO OTHER DEFENDANTS IN THE CASE, OTHER

DEFENDANTS IN THE CASE, OTHER PEOPLE WHO MUELLER HAS INDICTED

PEOPLE WHO MUELLER HAS INDICTED OR PEOPLE HE MAY INDICT THAT

OR PEOPLE HE MAY INDICT THAT SAYS YOU ARE NOT PARDON PROOF

SAYS YOU ARE NOT PARDON PROOF AND ITS ORVEBVIOUS THAT THE JUD

AND ITS ORVEBVIOUS THAT THE JUD SEE THE CHARGES VERY SERIOUSLY.

SEE THE CHARGES VERY SERIOUSLY. ONE PERSON I THINK WOULD

ONE PERSON I THINK WOULD PROBABLY BE PAYING PARTICULARLY

PROBABLY BE PAYING PARTICULARLY CLOSE ATTENTION IS ROGER STONE

CLOSE ATTENTION IS ROGER STONE BECAUSE WE KNOW HIS DEFENSE TEAM

BECAUSE WE KNOW HIS DEFENSE TEAM WILL GO IN FRONT OF THE SAME

WILL GO IN FRONT OF THE SAME JUDGE TOMORROW FOR A STATUS

JUDGE TOMORROW FOR A STATUS CONFERENCE AND WE MAY HEAR

CONFERENCE AND WE MAY HEAR WHETHER OR NOT HES IN VIOLATION

WHETHER OR NOT HES IN VIOLATION OF HIS GAG ORDER.

OF HIS GAG ORDER. YOU HAVE RICK GATES COMING UP

YOU HAVE RICK GATES COMING UP WHERE HIS DEFENSE WILL SHOW HOW

WHERE HIS DEFENSE WILL SHOW HOW MUCH HE IS COOPERATED UNLIKE

MUCH HE IS COOPERATED UNLIKE PAUL MANAFORT.

PAUL MANAFORT. IT SHOWS WHEN YOU MAKE DIGSS

IT SHOWS WHEN YOU MAKE DIGSS DECISIONS.

DECISIONS. THERES PLACES THE PRESIDENT

THERES PLACES THE PRESIDENT CANNOT REACH.

CANNOT REACH. THATS WHAT THE JUDGE MADE

THATS WHAT THE JUDGE MADE CLEAR.

CLEAR. HE SAID IN THE COURT THE FACTS

HE SAID IN THE COURT THE FACTS STILL MATTER.

STILL MATTER. COULD BE AN ILLUSION TO WHATS

COULD BE AN ILLUSION TO WHATS GOING ON IN POLITICS.

GOING ON IN POLITICS. PEOPLE MAY NOT TRUST WHAT THE

PEOPLE MAY NOT TRUST WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS HEARING.

PRESIDENT IS HEARING. THAT CANT HAPPEN IN HER

THAT CANT HAPPEN IN HER COURTROOM.

COURTROOM. THE FURTHER YOU TAKE THIS

THE FURTHER YOU TAKE THIS OUTSIDE OF MUELLER AS IT GOES TO

OUTSIDE OF MUELLER AS IT GOES TO PLACES LIKE THE SOUTHERN

PLACES LIKE THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORK ANDNEW YORK AN

DISTRICT OF FLORK ANDNEW YORK AN STATE LEVEL, THATS MORE PROOF

STATE LEVEL, THATS MORE PROOF OF THE INTERVENTION OF THE

OF THE INTERVENTION OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF THE WHITE

EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF THE WHITE HOUSE OF THE PRESIDENT TRYING TO

HOUSE OF THE PRESIDENT TRYING TO GET INVOLVED.

GET INVOLVED. >> A CASUAL OBSERVER WOULD SAY

>> A CASUAL OBSERVER WOULD SAY SEEMS LIKE A LOT IS STILL GOING

SEEMS LIKE A LOT IS STILL GOING ON.

ON. WHILE FLSTTHERES NO REPORTING T

WHILE FLSTTHERES NO REPORTING T SUGGEST THEY HAVE AN ALLIANCE

SUGGEST THEY HAVE AN ALLIANCE HERE, CY VANCE, THE NEW YORK

HERE, CY VANCE, THE NEW YORK D.A. DID THE NORMAL, LAWFUL

D.A. DID THE NORMAL, LAWFUL APPROACH THAT IS TO DEFER TO THE

APPROACH THAT IS TO DEFER TO THE FEDS UNTIL THE RIGHT POINT CHRKS

FEDS UNTIL THE RIGHT POINT CHRKS WHICH WAS TODAY WHICH WAS THE

WHICH WAS TODAY WHICH WAS THE SENTENCING AND PICK UP THE

SENTENCING AND PICK UP THE MANTEL.

MANTEL. WE DO KNOW THAT MUELLERS OTHER

WE DO KNOW THAT MUELLERS OTHER PLEA AGREEMENTS LIKE MANY DOJ

PLEA AGREEMENTS LIKE MANY DOJ AGREEMENTS HOLD OUT THE PROSPECT

AGREEMENTS HOLD OUT THE PROSPECT OF COOPERATING WITH OTHER

OF COOPERATING WITH OTHER AUTHORITIES WHICH COULD INCLUDE

AUTHORITIES WHICH COULD INCLUDE THE LOCAL D.A.

THE LOCAL D.A. HOW DOES THAT ALL STACK UP

HOW DOES THAT ALL STACK UP AGAINST WHAT YOURE SEEING

AGAINST WHAT YOURE SEEING MUELLER UP TO RIGHT NOW?

MUELLER UP TO RIGHT NOW? >> Reporter: WE HAVENT GOTTEN

>> Reporter: WE HAVENT GOTTEN ANY REPORTING THATS WAVED US

ANY REPORTING THATS WAVED US OFF THE IDEA THIS WILL BE

OFF THE IDEA THIS WILL BE CONCLUDESING WITHIN THE COMING

CONCLUDESING WITHIN THE COMING SWEEKS

SWEEKS WEEKS OR MONTHS.

WEEKS OR MONTHS. THIS COOPERATING WITNESSES ARE

THIS COOPERATING WITNESSES ARE KEY HERE.

KEY HERE. WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT

WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT INFORMATION THEY NEED IT COULD

INFORMATION THEY NEED IT COULD BE THAT MORE PEOPLE WOULD COME

BE THAT MORE PEOPLE WOULD COME FORWARD AND COOPERATE WHETHER

FORWARD AND COOPERATE WHETHER THATS WITH MUELLER HIMSELF OR

THATS WITH MUELLER HIMSELF OR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OR WITH

THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OR WITH THE MANHATTAN D.A.

THE MANHATTAN D.A. MUELLER WILL HAVE TO ANSWER THE

MUELLER WILL HAVE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION BEFORE HE SUBMITS THE

QUESTION BEFORE HE SUBMITS THE REPORT IS ANY OF THAT

REPORT IS ANY OF THAT COOPERATION CRUCIAL TO ANSWERING

COOPERATION CRUCIAL TO ANSWERING THE QUESTION THAT HE WAS LAID

THE QUESTION THAT HE WAS LAID OUT IN HIS ORIGINAL TASK WHICH

OUT IN HIS ORIGINAL TASK WHICH IS DID THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN

IS DID THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN COOPERATE WITH RUSSIA TO MEDDLE

COOPERATE WITH RUSSIA TO MEDDLE IN THE 2016 ELECTION.

IN THE 2016 ELECTION. IT COULD BRING IN NEW PEOPLE AND

IT COULD BRING IN NEW PEOPLE AND GO IN DIFFERENT PLACES.

GO IN DIFFERENT PLACES. IF WERE TALKING ABOUT TRUMP

IF WERE TALKING ABOUT TRUMP BEING OUT OF LEGAL TROUBLE AND

BEING OUT OF LEGAL TROUBLE AND STATE CHARGES, YOU HAVE TO LOOK

STATE CHARGES, YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT PROBES INTO THE TRUMP

AT PROBES INTO THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION.

ORGANIZATION. THIS MUELLER REPORT WONT MEAN

THIS MUELLER REPORT WONT MEAN THE PRESIDENT OR PEOPLE WHO WORK

THE PRESIDENT OR PEOPLE WHO WORK AROUND HIM ARE OUT OF THE LEGAL

AROUND HIM ARE OUT OF THE LEGAL HOT WATER, SO TO SPEAK.

HOT WATER, SO TO SPEAK. ITS JUST A MATTER OF MUELLER

ITS JUST A MATTER OF MUELLER BEING ABLE TO ANSWER THAT

BEING ABLE TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION IF ANYONE COOPERATION

QUESTION IF ANYONE COOPERATION COULD STEER HIM IN A DIFFERENT

COULD STEER HIM IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION.

DIRECTION. IF NOT, YES, WE COULD BE SEEING

IF NOT, YES, WE COULD BE SEEING THAT WRAP SOON.

THAT WRAP SOON. THAT WOULD BE TLIFRDELIVERED RIG

THAT WOULD BE TLIFRDELIVERED RIG HERE TO THE DEPARTMENT OF

HERE TO THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE.

JUSTICE. >> RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE WHERE IM

>> RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE WHERE IM SURE YOULL BE RUNNING OUT TO

SURE YOULL BE RUNNING OUT TO TELL US.

TELL US. MY THANKS FOR YOUR REPORTING.

MY THANKS FOR YOUR REPORTING. DAVID STAYS WITH ME MORE THE

DAVID STAYS WITH ME MORE THE COLLUSION PIECE OF THIS LATER.

COLLUSION PIECE OF THIS LATER. YOU GET THE LAST WORD ON WHAT

YOU GET THE LAST WORD ON WHAT WERE GOING TO SEE FOR PEOPLE

WERE GOING TO SEE FOR PEOPLE WATCHING THIS SAYING WOW, TODAY

WATCHING THIS SAYING WOW, TODAY IS THE FIRST TIME SOMEONE

IS THE FIRST TIME SOMEONE OUTSIDE OF WASHINGTON HAS

OUTSIDE OF WASHINGTON HAS INDICTED A TRUMP OFFICIAL.

INDICTED A TRUMP OFFICIAL. WOW, THERES NO PARDON POWER.

WOW, THERES NO PARDON POWER. ALL THESE OF TRUMPS

ALL THESE OF TRUMPS OBSTRUCTION, NOT PROVEN BY THE

OBSTRUCTION, NOT PROVEN BY THE WAY HE INTERSEEDS WITH HIS

WAY HE INTERSEEDS WITH HIS AIDES.

AIDES. HE CAN CALL CJ -- CY VANCE AND

HE CAN CALL CJ -- CY VANCE AND NOT GET A CALL BACK.

NOT GET A CALL BACK. >> IF YOU CONTINUE TO LIE FOR

>> IF YOU CONTINUE TO LIE FOR THE PRESIDENT, PEOPLE WILL COME

THE PRESIDENT, PEOPLE WILL COME FOR YOU NOW.

FOR YOU NOW. EVERYBODY NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND AT

EVERYBODY NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND AT THIS POINT IN THEIR LIVES AND

THIS POINT IN THEIR LIVES AND CAREERS TELLING THE TRUTH IS

CAREERS TELLING THE TRUTH IS PROBABLY THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

PROBABLY THE RIGHT THING TO DO. >> WELL PUT RIGHT HERE IN NEW

>> WELL PUT RIGHT HERE IN NEW YORK.

The Description of Trump Aide Paul Manafort Hit With Charges Trump Can’t Pardon | The Beat With Ari Melber | MSNBC