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Practice English Speaking&Listening with: Jordan Peterson - Growing Up and Being Useful is The New Counterculture

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the future authoring program has a heavy

emphasis on the need to use imagery to conceptualize

The ideal in west future, you mentioned

that the program's positive effects

are much more pronounced in men

specifically non-Western ethnic men

So I wanted to ask, are

imagery and specifically goal-directed imagery

and visual-spacial ability related

and if so given that men on average have

greater visual-spacial ability

could this account for the gender difference in the program's effects

- That's a lot of questions. They're good questions.

I'll tell you a couple of strange things

that are things that I don't

really understand: The first is when

we've done the analysis of the effects

of the future authoring program it has

a differential impact

on men and it's had a particularly

differential impact on what I would call

excluded men and so that would be non

Western ethnic minority men or...

majority men who aren't doing very well so

for example at Mohawk College the

future altering program had a

particularly robust effect on Mohawk

College students who were men who hadn't

done very well in high school and who

hadn't picked a major that had a

destination, a career destination at its

end so you can imagine those people are

they have an ambiguous relationship with

the idea of education and they're not

oriented specifically towards a goal

they're not very motivated now why did

it have a differential effect on men

that's a good question

well first of all the women are doing

better so it might just be a matter of

the fact that it does better for people

who aren't doing as well and at the

moment most of them are men. I don't

believe - I think that might be part of it -

but I don't believe that's all of it

I think that part of the reason that women

are doing better is because they're

agreeable and so if a system sets out a

structure and says here's a pathway to

attainment the women won't rebel against

that, they'll go along with it and that's

working very well for them at the moment

the men especially the men on the

disagreeable end of the distribution and

there's way more men on the

disagreeable end of the distribution

then there are women right that's what

you get from

if you look at overlapping normal

distributions so there's the male -

female distribution for

agreeableness male distribution for

agreeableness tremendous overlap okay

women are higher all the really

agreeable people are women all the

really disagreeable people are men and

and maybe the real differences occur at the

extremes right so, so and it's a very

interesting side effect of overlapping

distributions so they people can be

mostly the same but that can still

produce radical differences disagreeable

men won't do anything they don't want to

do they just say up yours I'll go home

and play video games. I'm not

listening to your stupid classes and why

should I work for you I'll just go have

fun I'll do my own thing I don't think

they're motivated and so then if you

take the men who are like that and you

say okay what do you want you can have

what you want but you have to figure out

what it is so then they write down what

they want and they think oh hey well that

might be worth having so maybe I'll put

some effort into it that's what it looks

like to me now you know that's weak

evidence and this is a weak argument but

I'm trying to stretch out my

understanding to account for this but

I'll tell you something else that's

really weird I don't understand this

either so more than 90% of the people

who watch my videos on YouTube are men

now that's weird because about 80%

of psychology students are women so that

is not what you would expect right you'd

expect that the majority of them would

be women and you might say well it's

because of the political stance I've

taken and I thought well that's possible

so I went looked at the demographic data

because I have that well before I did

any of the political videos 85%

of my viewers were men so it's

actually increased a bit it's increased

by six percent and that's not trivial

but it was still overwhelmingly men so

that was interesting I thought what the

hell why is that exactly

and then now I've been watching crowds

when I've been talking to them and the

crowds that have come to see me in

person this happened at the University

of Toronto free speech debate and I

actually noticed it and commented on it

before the debate took place because I

was talking about intrinsic differences

between men and women and I looked

around the room and I thought hmm

hey 80% of the people in this room are

men so I had all the men sta-

women stand

and then all the men stand up they said

look like here's a natural experiment

for some reason 80% of the people who

showed up to this or men now everybody

thought I was kind of cracked to, to do

that and it was a risk you know and I -

but I thought no there's something

going on here and then what's

interesting now is that every public

appearance that I've made that's related

to the sort of topics that we're

discussing is overwhelmingly men it's

like it's like eighty-five to ninety

percent and so I thought wow that's

weird like what the hell's going on here

exactly and then the other thing I've

noticed is that I've been talking a lot

to the crowds that I've been talking to

not about rights but about

responsibility right because you can't

have the bloody convers- what are you

doing - you can't have the conversation

about rights without the conversation

about responsibility because your rights

are my responsibility that's what they

are technically so you just can't have

only half of that discussion and we're

only having half that discussion the

question is well what the hell are you

leaving out if you only have that half

of the discussion and the answer is that

you're leaving out responsibility and

then the question is what are you

leaving out if you're leaving out

responsibility and an answer might be well

maybe you're leaving out the meaning of

life that's what it looks like to me

it's like here you are suffering away

what makes it worthwhile? Rights!? You know

you're completely out - you're completely

you have no idea what you're, you -

it's almost impossible to describe how bad an

idea that is. Responsibility that's what

gives life meaning

it's like lift a load then you can

tolerate yourself right because look at

your useless easily hurt easily killed

why should you have any self-respect

that's the story of the fall pick

something up and carry it make it heavy

enough so that you can think yeah well

useless as I am at least I could move

that from there to there well what's

really cool about that is that when I

talk to these crowds about this the

mens' eyes light up and that's very like

I've seen that phenomena because I've

been talking about this mythological

material for a long time and I can see

when I'm watching crowds people you know

their eyebrows lift their eyes light

up because I put

something together for them that's what

mythological stories do so I'm not

taking responsibility for that that's

what the stories do so I save the story

people go click click click you know in

their eyes light up

but this responsibility thing that's a

whole new order of this is that young

men are so hungry for that it is

unbelievable and one of the things I've

been talking to some of the people

who've been running for the conservative

leadership in Canada and I've been

talking to them about well the

difficulties they have communicating

with young people because conservatives

what the hell are they going to sell to

young people right because

being conservative is something that happens

when you're older they can sell

responsibility no one's selling it and

the thing is for men there's nothing but

responsibility you know I was watching

The Simpsons the other day I watched the

first Simpsons episode and I

deconstructed it and so it's really

interesting so what happens in the first

Simpson episode is that it's Christmas

and Homer and Marge are going to buy

some Christmas presents but Homer

doesn't get his Christmas bonus and so

he's absolutely crushed by that and that

actually is a recurring theme in The

Simpsons where Homer loses his job or

something like that or can't make

enough money

he's completely crushed even though he's

kind of a useless bumbling laughing fool

of a guy you know the thing that gives

that show its soul is that he's still

oriented towards his family that's what

makes him honorable is that foolish as

he is he's decided to adopt

responsibility for his family and to try

to bear that and so he's not he's a holy

fool he's not a complete fool and it's

so interesting watching the story

because he suffers dreadfully as a

consequence of not being able to fulfill

his responsibility well that's for men

women have their sets of

responsibilities they're not the same

right because they're complicated

because women of course have to take

primary responsibility for, for having

infants at least but then also for

caring for them they're structured

differently than men for biological

necessity even if it's not a

psychological issue and it's also partly

a psychological issue women know what

they have to do men have to figure out

what they have to do and if they have

nothing worth living for then they stay

Peter Pan and why the hell not because

the alternative to valued

responsibility is impulsive low-class pleasure

and you saw that in the Pinocchio story

right that's Pleasure Island it's like

well why lift the load if there's

nothing in it for you

that's another thing that we're doing to

men that's a very bad idea and to boys

it's like you're pathological and

oppressive it's like fine then why the

hell am I going to play if that's -

if that's the situation if I get no credit

for bearing responsibility, you could bloody

well be sure I'm not going to bear any

but then you know your life is useless

and meaningless and you have - you're not -

you're full of self-contempt and

nihilism and and that's not good and so

that's why I think - that's what I think is

going on at a deeper level with regards

to men needing this direction a man has

to decide that he's going to do

something he has to decide that.

- And with the imagery that gives us

all of the tangible things we're working towards

??? - doesn't give a sort of image to these - to men.

yeah well you know partly what you're

trying to do in the future authoring

process is say okay well what's your

highest value right it's the star it's

like okay what are you aiming for you

can decide man but you know there's some

criteria it should be good for you it

should be good for you in a way that

facilitates your moving forward

maybe it should be good for you in a way

that's also good for the family and the

community it should cover the, the domain

of life I mean there's constraints on

what you should regard as a value but

you - but within those constraints you

have the choice you have choice well the

thing is is that people will carry a

heavy load if they get to pick the

goddamn load so and they think well I

won't carry any load it's like okay fine

but then you're like the sled dog that

doesn't have a sled to pull you're just

going to you're going to tear pieces out

of your own legs because you're bored

you know you need people are pack

animals they need they need to pull

against a weight and and that's not true

for everyone it's not true particularly

say for low conscientious people I mean

maybe they're open and creative or

extroverted and some other things but

for the typical person they

they'll eat themselves they'll eat

themselves up unless they have a load

this is why there's such an opiate

epidemic among dispossessed white

middle-aged guys who are unemployed in

the U.S. it's like they lose their job

they're done right they despise

themselves they develop chronic pain

syndromes and depression and the chronic

pain is traded with opiates it's like

that's what we're doing so yeah that's

what it looks like to me is you have

to and it's so interesting to watch the

young men when you talk to them about

responsibility they're so God damn

thrilled about it it just blows me away

it's like really that's what's - that's the

counterculture grow the hell up and do

something useful really I could do that

oh I'm so excited by that idea no one

ever mentioned that before

like rights rights rights rights Jesus

it's appalling it's and I feel

that that's deeply felt by the people

who are coming out to to listen

to these sorts of things too

they've had enough of that so and they

better have because it's it's a

non-productive mode of being

responsibility man that's where the

meeting in life is so all right good one

more class I will see you next week

The Description of Jordan Peterson - Growing Up and Being Useful is The New Counterculture