Practice English Speaking&Listening with: Adam Ondra and Stefano Ghisolfi talk | Satisfaction of bolting and repeating climbing routes | Arco

Hi, Stefano!

Hi! How are you?

Great!

It's a little bit unusual, speaking English.

We usually speak Italian.

It's a little bit weird to speak English with you,

but it's ok.

How are you? Climbing around Arco a lot?

Yes, climbing a lot, training, climbing outside...

Right now, it's great for climbing outside.

You could have fun if you come here.

I've been training a lot for the Olympics,

which means training a lot on the speed wall,

but in a few months, it'll be over

and I'll be able to stay more

in Garda Trentino and Trentino, and climb on the rock,

potentially with you, that would be great!

Yeah, that would be grea!

I'm quite excited to compete in Meiringen in 2 weeks.

Are you coming there?

No. This year, I decided not to compete in bouldering

I will focus just on lead climbing.

2 years ago, I attended all possible competitions

during the whole year.

This time, I decided to focus on my strength,

on lead climbing.

Sounds good!

So...where to start?

We can start with the occasion where we first met.

We were born the same year, the same month, right?

Yeah!

We met for the first time in Marina di Ravenna

when we were...8, 9 years old?

I think we were older!

I started climbing when I was 11,

so it would be impossible.

It was around 2006 if I remember well.

I remember I saw you for the first time

in Marina di Ravenna.

It was my first international competition

and you were there.

How lucky I was to compete with you

for the first time!

I remember it was a fun competition

because it was at the seaside.

But it was a hard competition too

because there were already big names.

We were small, but...

I remember Marcello Bombardi, you,

Sbastien Berthe from Belgium...

It was a great competition.

It was actually quite futuristic

because it was already a combined format.

Combining boulder, lead, and speed climbing.

Yes, we competed in everything.

I think I almost beat you in speed.

We were very close!

And I remember you won

boulder and lead easily.

So then we met on the Youth Europen Cups, right?

Yes, in Imst.

It was always quite difficult to compete

at the Youth compeitions

because I was expected to win.

And I wasn't giving it everything I had,

but it was more like not to mess up.

Which, actually, happened in my first finals in Imst.

I was climbing one third up the route

and I saw that to the right, there was a wall

and I thought - let's make a no-hand rest!

So I did it, I was there for 20 or 30 seconds,

then I wanted to keep climbing,

but the belayer didn't want to give me slack.

And I realized it was my mistake.

I didn't see the black tape,

indicating that the part of the wall was out of the game!

I remember!

I was there, with Italian team

and we were all like, "Oh no, what is he doing?"

Everybody expected you to win

and you came probably last in the final.

It was very disappointing.

For me, it was a bit different

because it was my first Youth competition in Europe.

It was totally different for me.

I expected nothing because it was my first.

I didn't succeed because I arrived, I think...

20th, 21st or something like that.

But it was a great time

because it was my first time

and I didn't know what to expect.

It was my first European competition

and in the second, I went to the final for the first time.

So the first was like a test.

- As for you. - Yeah!

The second was in Bulgaria, in Veliko Tarnovo?

Yeah! You won there?

Yes.

Ok, I was in the final, I remember.

A good improvement for me. And for you too!

I wanted to ask you about your background.

You started to climb quite late, for our generation.

What kind of sport did you do before?

I used to go biking with my father.

I started when I was 6, so quite young.

This was my introduction to the world of sport.

World of the mountains.

This helped me a lot for the future compeitions

because my mind was already set for competing.

I wasn't very good at biking,

so when I was 11, I started climbing.

I immediately changed my focus

and started competing in climbing.

And I was better and having more fun.

So I completely switched when I was 12

and I stopped biking.

My father wasn't happy in the beginning

because he's a mountain bike instructor.

But then he understood it was my role

to compete in climbing, to go climbing.

My parents were super suportive.

Everybody was happy for me

and for my sister, who started climbing with me.

Did you started climbing in a gym?

You enrolled at some kind of a club?

Yes! My parents aren't climbers,

so I couldn't go rock climbing in the beginning.

So I started in a gym, in Turin, where I used to live.

Then I immediately started competing.

My first competition was about 1 or 2 months after I started.

It was a Youth competition.

I didn't have the climbing shoes

on my first competition.

Wow!

I tried to climb with my normal shoes there,

but it was impossible.

So I did all the boulders

where I have to pull with my arms

like super overhanging

because it was not important how to place the feet.

I remember I ended up second there.

And I understood there

that it was my sport, it was my thing.

So since the beginning,

your specialty was steep stuff in the overhang.

Yes, from the very beginning.

Maybe because I didn't have the combing shoes!

Maybe if I had them,

I would just learn how to climb in slabs too.

But I think I was more comfortable

on super overhanging terrain from the beginning.

So how did you discover the world of rock climbing?

When did you first get to climb in Arco?

I first went to Arco for the Rock Junior.

It was my first experience here, in Arco.

I fell in love with the place.

I remember already at the beginning,

when I competed in Rock Junior,

it was a great experience

because I was climbing on the wall

where the Rock Master is held.

It was amazing.

And then the place, Garda Lake and everything,

it was like a dream... it was magical!

I've never been rock climbing in Arco before.

I was maybe 16.

So I came here and didn't touch the rock at all

the first time.

It was a bit weird.

And then, first time I went rock climbing

maybe at the beginning...

But the first time I tried to climb a route

with the purpose of sending it

was in Aosta Valley.

It was a very steep wall, 45 degrees.

Everything is chipped from like 80s or 90s.

Tetto di Sarre

I remember the very first time I tried to climb a route

for sending it - it was a 7a.

I started climbing, onsight, and fell on the last quickdraw.

And then I looked at the top

and figured out I actually climbed the 7a.

That was the first chain.

And then I almost climbed the 8a+.

It was the second chain. Onsight.

It was one of my first tries.

So this was your first rock climbing ever

and you almost onsighted 8a+?

It wasn't my first rock climbing ever.

I tried a couple of times before, but only easy stuff.

This was the very first time

I went rock climbing to send something.

Like a competition mind setting.

I was 14 or 15...

I already attended some Youth international comps,

so I was fit, strong, trained...

but I'd never tried something on real rock.

That one was my first 7a.

When I climbed to the first chain.

On the same day, I did my first 7b and 7c.

The same day.

Well, speaking about your power

and the crag of Tetto di Sarre,

later on, you did something that blows my mind,

and I think you're holding a world record in campusing...

Climbing the entire route

without your feet - 8a+!

That is incredible!

Yes. It was the exact same 8a+

I was trying to onsight the first time.

It was a bet with my friend.

He told me, "It's impossible to do it without feet."

I said,"Ok, I'm gonna do it!"

I was trying it for just one day

and I did it immediately.

And I won a pizza.

It was just a pizza...

That's always the best prize!

Have you tried campusing a route?

Yes, some years ago, when I had a knee injury,

I used to go to my home crag

and I didn't find any lead route

that would be steep enough and with good holds

where I would be able to campus the whole route.

I just tried to campus some sections.

But I tried to campus some of the boulder problems

at the bottom of this crag.

I think I campused one 7C+.

But I still think it's so much easier

to campus this kind of problem than campus that route.

I did that 8a+ in Tetto di Sarre as well,

so I know the route

and I think it's quite long

and the holds are far apart and not very good at the end.

Yeah, everything is straight,

like a campus board, so you just have to pull up.

The hardest part was clipping.

You have just one point of contact

and you start rotating.

It was a stupid thing that I did once.

But I remember you did something blindfolded...8b?

Yeah! There is an 8b in my home crag that I did many times.

I also used to do training laps on it.

So I did it 10 times in a row,

or I climbed up, down, up, down, up...

I knew this route very well, so I tried it blindfolded.

I heard about para climbing team in Japan.

The best guy was able to climb 8a+

and he can't see a thing.

So I wanted to try how it feels

and it feels really hard!

Every move which is a little bit dynamic

is so much harder.

Everything feels much more distant.

Even though you know the route well,

once you do a dyno,

you are never sure where the hold is.

And from my experience, you always have to go

a little bit further than you expect.

So I did this 8b, but it took me four times extra.

And I was so pumped!

Surprising is that it's hard to choose your footholds

because you have less sensitivity with your feet.

So the easiest is to go down with your hand,

find the foothold and then make a match.

Crazy!

We have weird records...

Next step would be campusing blindfolded.

Yeah!

So, at the beginning, when you turned 16,

you started going to the World Cups?

Yes. I started in 2009.

My first World Cup, in Chamonix.

Were you there? I think so.

Yes. It was my...

My first international competition

was the World Championships in 2009 in Xining

and the next competition was Chamonix.

Ok.

I remember, you were probably in final

and I started from the bottom.

I started competing when I wasn't so experienced,

but neither was you...

But at my first World Cup competition,

I ended up 51st or so

and I improved a bit every year

and reached the final.

You already started in the final,

so we had a slightly different path.

What is your attraction towards the competition?

Why do you enjoy them?

I like the adrenalin

and that unique feeling that you have, competing.

The flow when you climb on a competition

is more intense, I think.

Even more than rock climbing something really hard.

It's, I think, because of the stage, the spectators,

the time - it's almost everytime night.

So the feeling of the flow, of the climbing at the comp,

is isolating me even more than rock climbing.

When I rock climb something, even something super hard,

I'm focused on 100%, but there are some moments

when I rest, or enjoy, or think of something else.

While competing, I'm 100% focused on that moment.

I find this more on competition than rock climbing.

What about you? Do you feel the same?

It's different.

The better the competition is, the bigger crowd there is,

and I feel it helps me to dig deeper into this mental state.

To be completely focused.

To ignore that there is 10 000 people behind my back.

Yeah, it's the same for me.

And it's surreal feeling.

That's the feeling I enjoy the most at the competition.

Apart from creating a perfect challenge.

I think competitions motivate me to train more.

To train more specifically and harder.

Because you know at that moment, on that day,

you have to deliver the performance.

Which is also useful because when the comp is over,

you can use all the training that you did before

on the real rock.

Yeah. That's something that I always do.

I train for the competition

because it's even easier to set some goals.

The comp is that day, in mid-June,

so I train for 2 months, then rest for 1 week, and train again.

I know I need to be fit for that day.

But from that period, I'm very fit,

so I can enjoy rock climbing the most.

Without specific training for rock climbing.

It has always been like this for me.

I train specifically for the competition

and then I'm fit for rock climbing too.

For me, it's also always important to find the balance

between some competitions and rock climbing.

So some years, I don't compete at all,

only focusing on and enjoying rock climbing,

and from time to time, I really lack this...

...urge to compete, to tackle the challenge,

to be challenged.

And then I lose the interest and wanna go to rocks again.

Right now, it's been quite long 2 or 3 years

that I've been mostly focusing on competitions

and I'm really glad that the competition season

will be over soon.

After the Olympics, I definitely wanna go back

into the places I like.

Into the rock climbing crags and climb more there.

Without practicing speed climbing all over again!

Yeah, I know, I feel the same!

It was different for me, I always competed

all the years in my life.

Last year, 2020, was the first year

when I didn't compete

and I focused on rock climbing.

So it was different

because I trained specifically for rock climbing.

From May to July, I trained specifically for Change,

for going to Norway and try to repeat Change.

Even though I just saw you in the video.

I tried to replicate something

on my wall and train specifically.

This was the first year

when I didn't compete in any compettion.

Now I miss the feeling of competing

and I want to train again.

That's what I'm doing now

for competing this year in World Cup.

Yeah. I was always impressed by your climbing

and by your mentality

that sooner or later, you always get there,

you constantly improve.

I think it was the same for you with the competition

as working on some of the hardest projects.

At the beginning, you don't feel that strong

in some of the moves,

but by the time, you just improve and improve

and I think I can really see and feel

you just have the confidence and trust in yourself

that sooner or later, you'll send the project.

Or sooner or later, you'll end up winning the comps.

I think this is one of the greatest things about climbing.

Even if you can't move from a project at the beginning,

then, after training and trying the project,

you can send it.

I think that's the best thing about climbing.

I also wanted to talk about the first 9b in Italy,

which is first ascended by you!

It's called Lapsus and it's in Andonno,

so it's close to your former home in Turin.

Yes! I remember it was 2015.

I started trying this route.

There was a connection between Noi,

the first Italian 8c+,

and another 8c - Anaconda.

The route is quite long.

I tried for one whole year, from January,

and I send it in November.

It was something that took me more than other routes,

like Biographie...the time I was trying this route.

So I proposed the grade 9b

and it was the first one of Italy.

For now, the only repetition is from you.

For me, the crag Andonno is quite special

because I was there for the first time

when I was, like, 12.

When I was 13, I repeated the first part

of this Lapsus 9b, which is Noia 8c+.

And that could be Italy's first 8c+, right?

Yes. Climb from Severino Scassa for the first time.

I think it was first ascended in 1993,

which is the year when we were both born.

I know the exact date!

It was first ascended on February 14th.

So between your birth and mine.

You were born February 5th

and I was born February 18th.

And Noi was born between us.

Nice!

Well, we were always joking

that I have a big advantage because I'm 2 weeks older,

so I had 2 weeks extra of training.

Yes!

If you stop for 2 weeks, I can catch up with you.

Well, I stop for 3 weeks annually in December.

But the problem is that I stop too...

I have to continue!

You have to skip the rest and then we'll be equal.

Yes.

When I heard about your first ascent,

I was excited to give a try

because I had good memories of climbing in Andonno.

And I think I was trying it for 2 or 3 days

and took a lot of falls at the very top

due to just arriving to the final section too pumped,

but I returned one month later and send it.

I checked the moves and send it the next try

on a really beautiful day, crystal clear air.

I think it's a great route and hopefully, more people

will come and try to repeat it!

Right now, Marcello Bombardi is trying it.

He lives quite close.

Not very close, 3 hours of driving.

But he's trying a lot, so hopefully he'll send it soon.

But now, the hardest route of Italy is another one.

In Arco, right?

Yes. I climbed it last January.

It's ready for you and for whoever wants to try it.

It's in Eremo di San Paolo.

I watched the video and can't wait to give it a try

because some of the moves just look amazing!

There are actually some of the most amazing obscure holds

I've ever seen on limestone.

The right-hand pinch, the tiny tufa,

make a heel hook and go into almost nonexistent crimp.

Then make a big double dyno in the middle of the route...

It was your first route that you ever bolted

and it turned out to be a 9b / 9b+?

Yes! I think it wasn't random.

I was looking for something that looked hard.

I didn't casually bolted something

and only then discovered it was hard.

I hoped it was hard!

And I saw this line

between 2 routes in Eremo di San Paolo,

this small crag here in Arco, in Garda Trentino.

I saw that some holds were visible from the ground

and it looks smooth, not many holds were there.

I thought it could be possible to climb something there.

So I started bolting.

It was my very first route that I bolted.

Before, I placed just one bolt between two routes,

St. Anger and Zauberfee.

I connected them. That was my first bolt.

But my first route bolted was Erebor.

Now it's called Erebor.

In first, I bolted a straight line

and trying to climb it was really smooth.

In the middle part, I noticed it was really hard.

There was almost nothing.

A bit on the left, there were some holds.

So I just put one more bolt to the left

and did this variant of the original route

and I climbed this easier version, that is a 9b / 9b+.

So there is also a harder version of Erebor,

that is still waiting for the ascend.

Let's go back into the time when you moved to Arco.

You moved there because of climbing,

or because you liked it? Or both?

It was a combination of these two reasons.

Also with Sara, my girlfriend,

we were talking. We used to live in Turin.

We'd like to move to a place where it's possible to climb

the whole year and every moment of the day.

It was a decision we made even before we met.

When I met Sara, I knew her,

and thought, "Ok, I'd like to move to Arco for climbing."

And she told me, "Yes, I'd like the same thing."

So when I finished the university,

the physical education in Turin,

it was in 2016, and we decided to move to Arco.

To experience climbing for 100%.

It's pretty funny, because with my fiance Iva,

Arco was the first climbing trip we've ever done as a couple.

For us, it's also a really important place

where we wanna spend a lot of time in the future.

Yeah. And when did you come to Arco for the first time?

I think I don't remember the first time in Arco

because I was 3 or 4 years old.

But there is a picture that is a proof!

We are sitting in the dust

at the crag of Masone with my sister.

But I remember the second time I was there.

I was 7 or 8.

It was just the time when I started lead climbing,

so Arco was perfect. There are many well-bolted routes.

A lot of 6a, 6b routes with bolts that are close apart,

I didn't just like it because it's a beautiful place,

but also because I could climb a lot, being not that scared.

Since then, I've been going to Arco every year.

Maybe 2, 3, 4 times...

There were the comps too, Arco Rock Youth Junior

and the Rock Masters that I liked a lot.

I remember the second time I was in Arco,

I wasn't only interested in rock climbing,

but I also wanted to climb on the same wall

where Rock Masters took place.

Already back then I was interested in climbing history,

my big idol was Tomas Mrazek.

He was the world champion and he was from the same hometown.

I wanted to climb on the same wall as he did.

So during that trip, I convinced my parents,

"Let me climb on that wall!"

I was climbing on the right wall on the Rock Master stadium

and the route that was set there,

it was maybe 6c, tackling the big roof,

and I really wanted to get to the top,

but the rope drag was so much and I was so little and skinny

that I wasn't able to pull the rope anymore!

So I fell 2 quickdraws below the top

because the rope drag didn't let me in.

I was so frustrated!

I think the second time I was able to climb to the top

during the Rock Master when I was 16 or 17.

And did you get to the top or the drag stopped you?

It was a different route, obviously.

But when I first climbed the right wall on Rock Master,

it was an onsight route and I didn't get to the top.

I fell like 5 moves from the top, I was too pumped.

I remember Rock Master routes were hard,

so I understand!

And always pumpy!

Later on, I found out that this wall is so pumpy and long,

that it didn't fit my style.

On the competitions, I prefer the walls

that are shorter, power endurance oriented,

and more powerful.

I think the Rock Master wall is one of the longest

in competitions.

It's around 20 meters or so.

It's kind of my style, I like endurance routes.

But I prefer bigger overhang.

The wall in Chamonix or Briancon

fits my style more.

And then the inverted roof is always so confusing!

You never know whether to climb your feet first,

or to campus it...

I remember the route setters said it's always feet first,

but I always decided to go straight.

And campusing all the way to the top.

So after moving to Arco, you set

the objective of climbing all the hard routes, right?

And last year, you ran out of all the hard ones,

so you had to bolt your own route.

Yes! At first, I tried all the routes that were already established.

Up to 9a / 9a+, I think.

Then I started trying all the projects that were bolted,

but not freed yet.

Like Omen Nomen in Padaro,

or some other projects in Laghel.

After that I almost finished all the projects and routes,

so I decided to bolt something myself.

I think it was the only way for the future.

It is more satisfying if you climb something that you bolted

because you put everything on it.

You see the blank wall, decide where to put the bolts,

you find the beta,

you find out the beta is weird, then try another one...

And when you climb something that you bolted,

there's more satisfaction than if it's already established.

But you know that! You bolted a lot of routes.

Yeah. I feel the same thing.

Making first ascents is great,

but if you also bolt it, it gives you more satisfaction.

Then the experience is full package.

It goes from exploring the unknown.

For me, bolting something completely untouched,

you're in the place, that has never been touched by anyone,

it's like...being a new age explorer.

At the moment, in the world, you in fact can't be an explorer,

coz everything is already explored.

But there are still some parts of the rock faces

that nobody has ever been to.

It's always being curious, how that hold is gonna be,

and being curious how the actual climbing turns out,

if it turns out to be climbable or not...

To be honest, when I was...

Before you bolted Erebor, I was in Eremo

(where Erebor is located)

quite many times.

And I never really noticed that it would be a climbable line.

It just looks so hard. So impossible!

And the features there are so vague!

First I bolted just the first part

and didn't check the last part

and hoped there was something.

Then I figured out all the moves in the first part,

then I bolted the second part,

and it seemed even harder,

more impossible than the first part.

It's waiting for you, I'm looking forward to it.

Because there is big satisfaction to climb something you bolted,

but it's even bigger if someone repeats it.

Because it doesn't depend... like I climbed it, it's finished.

It's beautiful if some people start trying it.

And repeating the route is the best thing

because it's something I did for me,

for other climbers, and for climbing in general.

Yeah, cool!

In Arco, there's only one route that I bolted.

It's a project on Bus de la Stria,

on the far righ-hand side.

I think it also could be something that

is definitely at least 9b, or harder.

We could try it together.

It would be nice!

I was there once, tried something else on the left,

and I saw it...seems like a blank wall.

Super overhanging, very small, or maybe no holds at all.

And then there is the big project in Laghel,

which, at the moment, is forbidden to climb

because of the private property.

It's something we have to arrange.

It's called the King Line.

I think you called it King Line

because you called the Queen Line

the easiest verion we climbed.

It was already a hard 9b.

And this straight hand is a lot harder.

I think you tried a few times, I tried a bit more.

I think it's at least a 9b+.

Yeah, I think too.

You have to climb almost the whole 9b,

the whole hard part of the 9b.

Then there's the uncomfortable kneebar,

that is...something like this.

You're used to uncomfortable kneebars, but I'm not.

I think the difficulty depends on how long

you're able to release your hand and stay there.

I think you cannot release your hands there.

I think, with practice...

Due to my experience, even on stuff like Silence,

there were section where I couldn't believe it's possible

to release your hands.

But after trying it 100 times,

I gained the confidence,

I found the intricacies like what to do with the knee,

and especially, it's mental.

You gain confidence and after a lot of tries,

I was able to release for 2 seconds,

after more tries, I was able to release for 20 seconds.

And for me, those 20 seconds,

was a big difference!

Suddenly, I had the max power to do the crux.

It could be the key for that line.

But I couldn't release the hands even for 0.5 second,

so I think it's a hard kneebar.

But you're the master of kneebars, you'll find something.

I can teach you!

Thank you!

I think lots of people see making kneebars

as something that is given,

but it's definitely trainable.

If you wanna be a kneebar master, you have to train for it.

Even try to encrease my capacity

of hanging upside down and not turning dizzy.

Coz if you hang upside down for 2 minutes

and suddenly you just go back and start climbing,

you feel dizzy and it feels awful!

But you can get used to it.

When you come to Arco, we can search something

that we can bolt and climb together.

Bolting something, I realized how much work is behind.

How much work there is

before just trying, go climbing,

even with quickdraws pre-placed sometimes.

It made me realized how much effort there is

before we go climbing, behind the scene.

Often, we don't see it.

And I also understood that when I climbed Change.

I think it was a great effort for you to bolt it

because it's huge, over 55 metres.

How long did it take to bolt it?

Exactly 2 days. Full 2 days of work.

I must say I was really happy that you chose Change

because it was there for 7 years

without, actually, anyone giving it any serious effort.

I think everyone was discouraged by the lower boulder problem

that only includes this weird shoulder gaston crimps

and really weird drop knees.

I was glad you found a little bit different method

that makes it also accesible to many more people

that don't like completely inverted drop knees,

which is the way I did it.

Yeah, I remember. I was a bit discouraged too,

but I was sure there is another way,

or even if there was only this way,

that I could do it anyway.

It was really steep terrain, so I thought,

"This is my style, I can do it."

Even if I cannot do a drop knee behind my ear,

I can do something else.

Then I figured out that with a kneebar,

everything was possible.

Hopefully, someone will try it after my repetition too.

I'm glad that the new beta was found,

but I'm also glad that the climbing didn't get easier.

I think it's just a different method

that would feel harder for me,

but feels maybe easier for you because it's your style.

But taking this massive swing of the left-hand gaston

and the right-hand gaston 2-finger pocket,

seems crazy to me!

It was the hardest move, it took me a lot to do it!

I climbed the first part of Change,

but the next days, I couldn't climb the first part anymore

because the more time I was there, the more I was tired.

So it took me a lot to gain again the confidence

to climb the first part.

Then I had to go back to Italy, on the first day of September,

to attend an Italian competition.

And when I went back to Flatanger,

the first crux wasn't problem anymore.

I could do it 2 or 3 times in a day

with no problem.

So the second crux became the main crux.

I fell, I think, 2 or 3 times in the second crux.

Once in the middle, once at the end.

And on the 3rd or 4th try, I passed the first crux

and was able to go to the top.

It was the same process for me

because I spent one and a half month in Norway,

partly in Flatanger, trying Change.

Then I went back home, trained, and returned in the autumn.

I think mid September.

I thought I would do it straight away.

I was feeling stronger in the first crux,

but I couldn't do it 2 or 3 times every day.

I also had bad weather conditions

because most of the days,

the holds at the first crux were a little bit humid

and then it was more about waiting for the right day,

when it was windy, so the holds were dry

and that day, I finally send it.

But I heard that the day when you send Change,

the conditions were absolutely terrible!

Yes. I was lucky the whole month before.

It was always dry, warm, not cold,

so I climbed the whole month very well.

But the day I send it was the worst from the whole trip.

It was super hot, sunny,

but a lot of holds were wet.

Not the ones in the crux, but some of the good holds

where you rest.

So not the best conditions to try it.

But it was possible anyway.

There were big holds where you can rest.

I think the drying of the holds every time,

or taking more chalk than necessary, was frustrating,

but I was there and I decided to try it anyway.

So I started, passed the first crux,

I tried to rest in these wet holds,

then I went for the second crux,

and finally, everything was dry there.

I passed the second crux too

and I fought until the very last move.

Even though they're easy, I was very pumped

after 50 metres of climbing.

I was totally destroyed.

I was gonna puke at the end!

I think everybody who will ever try this route

will get this experience,

that by the time you reach the anchor, you wanna vomit.

It's so long and intense!

It's not very encouraging to go and try it in this way.

Maybe nobody will go to try it after this.

For me, on the successful try,

I made it through the first crux very well

and I was thinking I was very fresh.

I made it to the second crux, it was quite a fight,

but right after, there were some boulder problems

where I was nervous.

Everything went well, but I was just so surprised

that 10 meters below the anchor, I got so pumped.

And I started panicking!

Just the idea of falling, 10 meters from the ground,

after climbing 45 or 50 metres, would be just...

You know...the worst horror you can imagine!

I also saw the video 10, 15 metres from the anchor

that you messed up your sequence a little bit

and you just decided to do the dyno

that looks just ridiculous, no?

Yeah. It wasn't any super hard part.

I have there one shoulder and a small crimp

and then I started really well to put my feet high

and go dynamic to a very good jug.

When I was there, I was so pumped

I couldn't put my feet up,

so I just decided to desperately jump to the hold.

Ok, I'll just try to go!

Because I couldn't put my feet

any milimeter higher.

So I just jumped to the hold with my last energy.

It was the last part, I risked a lot to fall there.

It was maybe the main crux

for that attempt. It was crazy.

It wasn't the hardest part,

just a mini crux at the end of the route.

How did you like Flatanger? Do you want to return there?

I wanna return there

because there are still quite a few projects

that could be really hard, I think.

Yeah, I want to return there

coz I didn't climb anything else there.

I just did one 8c and some warm up routes

and then I focused on Change for 100%.

But there are still hundreds of projects,

9a, 9a+, 9b...even Silence.

I would like to give it a try

and see if I can move there.

I think it's a weird route. Maybe not my style.

Even though it's overhanging, the weird moves aren't my style.

I'm curious to try it

and see how hard and cool it is.

There's also a project that I call Big,

which is to the left of Change.

I think it could be 9b+ / 9c.

I'd like to try it and I think it could be your style.

The line is perfect

and it's in the most improbable part of the cave.

It's where the cave looks the most impossible to climb.

That's where it is.

And it goes, I did all the moves,

so I'd like to return.

You're welcome to try it with me.

Thanks! Did you bolt it?

Yes!

I think I bolted it the year after I finished Change.

When I first got to the Flatanger cave in 2012,

I had this intention,

"Well, I have to find something hard, bolt it,

and try to climb it."

During that season, I climbed some of the projects

that I already bolted. I bolted Change.

But I returned the next year, 2013,

and the only intention of the first trip

to bolt as much as possible.

I bolted maybe 10 routes in 2 weeks.

Some of them turned out to be only 8c or 9a,

but one of the projects turned out to be Silence.

But I think the best project I bolted then

was this project Big.

But at that moment, it felt too hard.

So I abandoned it and during that season,

I first ascended Iron Curtain 9b

and also Move 9b / 9b+.

I'd like to try those lines.

Iron Curtain and Move look amazing!

I wanted to ask you about your perfect gloves!

- Ah, my gloves! - Why do you think they work?

I climbed 6c with my gloves.

It was the most difficult route I could climb.

It was cold and it was weird, but good,

because...you know, in a funny way.

It was a cold day, so I tried to climb with gloves

and there are a few advantages!

It isn't cold on the rock,

you don't have to take chalk because you don't need it.

It was funny, but it was just a joke.

Unfortunately, there are no gloves that help you climb.

For cracks, yes, but not for crack climbing.

It could be a part fo training!

I also tried once to climb easy routes with gloves

and I was surprised how much more pressure

you had to create against the holds.

So the pump is coming pretty soon.

Yeah, you pump a lot more.

To pinch is 10 times harder

because it's so slippery.

Once I also tried with boxing gloves.

Yeah!

It's way harder.

You can only take jugs.

It could be our next world record,

after campusing blindfolded.

With gloves.

Ok. We'll set a nice route in Masone,

like Pietro Morata or Rainy Swipes

That would be hard!

If you come to Arco, you're welcome.

It would be nice to climb together!

Otherwise, see you at Innsbruck competition.

I really enjoyed talking to you.

Me too!

Even though I would enjoy climbing with you even more!

But I think soon, this autumn or this winter,

we'll have a lot of time.

Yeah, climbing would be even more fun!

See you soon, take care!

I will. Bye!

Bye!

See you, bye!

You need to try Erebor.

Sure! The route must be perfect!

I like it for the reason that it's so intense.

You begin and it goes and goes!

I was also surprised how difficult the last bolt was.

The end was the worst. I was so tired.

Yeah.

I think that it could be even harder for you

because the toe hook is just right for my height.

But you're higher, which is harder, I think.

So you don't think I could use a heel hook

instead of toe hook?

No.

It's too far?

Exactly.