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Practice English Speaking&Listening with: What Do You Do If You Can't Get Through To Someone - Jocko Willink and Echo Charles

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chuckle have you ever had a person you couldn't get through to something that

you couldn't manipulate then what what do you do when you can't get through

well yeah of course I've had people that I could not get through to it and

generally speaking these people are like level 12 arrogance that's what they are

giant ego that's what causes this there was quite a few seal leaders that I

dealt with I shouldn't say quite a few there were

several seal leaders that I dealt with that were like that and of several

business leaders that I've dealt with that I were like that in podcast number

five I read that counseling letter hmm corrective measures to a guy that was

really arrogant and despite that letter he did not change and he got fired so

what do you do when you got someone that you can't get through to you you fire

them that's if they're if and here's what you got to do is what what makes

that tricky is that some people and this may this this will make people freak out

there are some people that they're such good performers that even though they're

slightly negative on maybe their team participation but they're so good that

that it offsets their negativity right and that happens it happens you know

what happens with sales people sales people are are in order to be in a sales

position you got to be confident you got to be aggressive you got to be somewhat

arrogant right you got to believe in yourself and so some salespeople take

that to the extreme where they're just like I don't need to listen to what

you're telling me the new procedures are yeah screw that I'm the one that's doing

the big dollars over here how about you follow my procedures boys right so so

that happens well then what you got to do is you got to look does is this guy

producing so well now that can create problems within the team mmm and you

have to balance those things it is this guy is the negative is creating offset

by the awesome product if ateva tees do it and furthermore if the guy is that

good hey maybe we should be modeling some things after them I have no problem

with that if you're the best performer cool I want to imitate you I want to get

my people to him at 8:00 you so that happens at the other place where

you might see it a similar situation is a leader that does really good with

their relationships down the chain of command for instance but it really has

bad relations up the chain of command so again you got to ask yourself okay if I

fire this leader how many of these people that he has great relationships

are now gonna leave and what kind of detriment is that to the team that can

also happen with someone that doesn't that treats their people like crap but

up the chain of command everyone thinks is great and and he's getting the

mission done by the way mmm right he's a slave driver and he's creating total

animosity between him and his team but he's accomplishing the mission so now

how would he do there's a risk everyone could quit there's risk you could fire

them and now you don't accomplish the mission anymore this is why leadership

is hard and this is why you have to balance everything mm-hmm you have to

balance those things but talked about it a bunch of times if you get someone you

coach them you mentor them you do everything you can you flank them you do

jujitsu mental jujitsu on them you try and get them squared away and eventually

if you can't you weigh against you know how it's gonna affect the situation and

then in many cases you got to let them go

and we fired you know we fired five saw plenty of seals get fired from

leadership positions and and same thing with you know obviously we work with

consulting businesses we see all kinds of people getting fired because they're

either not capable of doing their job they're too arrogant and they don't

recognize that things are going sideways and they're just thinking that they're

doing everything perfect no that's not gonna work out well for you hmm

you know what did I think is Lafe

someone asked him you know when do you know when's that line where it's like

when it's time to fire someone yeah and he was like in a nutshell there's a lot

to it but in a nutshell which that was dope

he said it's you know you're at that point where you fire someone when when

you don't feel bad about it right right so it's like yeah you you every tried

everything and and there's also people boots there's some validity to this that

say the first time you think you should fire someone you should fire that's the

other end of the spectrum right and what that means is when you're looking at

someone and you're going man okay I can save them I can help that's the kind of

advice you give to someone that's that's a that's got a maternal instinct right

that you meet someone hey I know this guy's just a good guy and everyone my

team is great and everyone's gonna do great job you can't tell that person

what life and I normally tell people which is when you feel good about it you

should fire him because that person will never feel good about firing anybody

just insane because he decided duska I know he's gonna make it no he's gonna

come around you know I and then they then they start playing the the extreme

ownership game which is you know if I would have given EKKO a better direction

he would have been able to do this it's my fault yeah I've given EKKO 17

iterations of this and he still didn't complete it correctly he's fired that's

the way it works right there's yeah the balance so that spectrum of of you know

being within the confines of being justified firing somebody a certain type

of person you gotta say when you don't feel bad about it right right

I mean that's like a fire heavy type dude right but there's also someone the

reason you shouldn't feel bad about it is because I've done everything I can do

to help you yeah which takes work it takes effort it takes tact it takes hard

conversations because it's hard for me to go and say echo you know I've been

I've been looking at your videos lately and they're they're not really what

we're looking for right I don't want to say that to you and you know it's

uncomfortable and we're kind of like you know we we want to get along so instead

I'm like yeah echo that that video is good man yeah it's good but I'm not

telling you the truth and then over time our videos are looking good enough and

eventually I say you know what you know we're no one's buying our

videos anymore or and we haven't gotten in new

contracts so guess what I'm gonna have to let you go you're like what about you

said all the videos I made were good now you're firing me maybe you need to

become a better salesperson yeah whereas if I had the hard conversation

early and said hey echo you know I know you're creative and I appreciate that

but we also need to get the message across for our clients I'm obviously

fabricating a business where we're making videos of applying for clients

yeah which I know we don't really do a lot of

anymore occasionally you do but yeah you got oh you got to have the hard

conversations earlier if I'm the type of person that doesn't like to have the

hard conversations once again I never feel good about it

cuz I never I never gave you any advice so it always feels bad for me to fire

someone yeah but if you're following good leadership tactics then absolutely

true when you get to a point where you gotta fire somebody you won't feel bad

about it because you know you've done everything you can

you know you've coach them mentor them and you know that if you keep them on

board you are negatively impacting your team which is bad yeah and then go down

to the other side of the spectrum still within the confines of being justified

in firing somebody by the way but on the other side of the spectrum you get how

you say that what do you call the maternal instinct I'm a direct the

person who can like they're they're just super hard on themselves maybe or

they're you know like even if you did do everything you can you still like I

coulda done more you know so it's my fault that is I feel like I let them

down as a leader yeah give them 17 counseling chits yeah you know they

don't belong here you can't do their job stop yeah I mean well they're going home

laughing at you or whatever yeah yeah you get that kind of

personality so it's kind of like how you say you gotta balance it you got to be

like okay you gotta recognize okay what kind of person am i you know or what

kind of person is this other person kind of thing and if they're those maternal

instinct jool for lack of a better with one person then what was it the first

time you feel like you should fire them you should fire you you hang out on that

side of the spectrum you gotta yeah

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