Practice English Speaking&Listening with: The Biggest Vulnerability to Every Business | Inside 4Ds

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- I think people talk a big game

that they wanna build a hundred million dollar company,

but aren't willing to do the sacrifices, nor should they.

If one isn't passionate enough, or happy enough

to sacrifice golf, or family time, or leisure,

then they shouldn't.

But I think focus is,

I'm running out of time or focus is the great

entrepreneurial excuse for my actions

don't match my ambitions.

This portion is like with me,

so I think this is when you need to get selfish.

Like, you need to ask your question.

Hiring is guessing, firing is knowing.

Like, you gotta go fast, that's how you get shit done.

That's how you figure stuff out.

This is the television,

and the television is the radio.

The 4Ds motherfuckers.

- And so my question is, and I sort

of took away already a lot of information

from what we've been talking about all day is that,

so I have a ton of content that I can create,

and I feel sort of mired in the inability

to sort of fare it out, like how to organize the content

and start delivering, because it's across not only

just one problem that people are having, but like

if you look at women's entire reproductive life cycle,

I have 20 years of clinical experience,

I work with over 10,000 women,

it's like volumes of content to be creating

in PMS, cramping, menopause, pregnancy, and fertility,

and I can't decide like should I just focus in on one.

- No.

- So go, I'll just let you answer.

- Well, I'm just jumping on that on that one

cause it's so easy, I'll let you keep talking,

but the answer's of course not,

because as you know, that then just limits you

to that narrow of a thing.

The whole punch line of this whole thing,

and I'm sure for a lot of you is driving down

the cost of creative and that is not just

having the ability to produce creative at a cost

that you can afford, it actually starts with your

own subjective opinion about the creative.

- Say more about that.

- It's the biggest reason everyone's losing.

You're judging it before it hits the day of light

in your own ecochamber, the end.

I have no idea how well my posts are gonna do,

I have hypotheses, I have intuition,

I like debating with my own self out of how

good am I at knowing the current state of my audience

or potential audience, but on a daily basis I'm surprised

on upside and downside of pieces of content.

It's humility.

It's actually respecting your customer

more than your own opinion.

- And ego.

- Ego's just insecurity in makeup.

The end.

Like, what's so crazy about this little three minutes

already is how unmotivated I am for

anything else to talk about.

Like how I very much feel that for the majority

of your businesses, I've just answered the actual question.

Cause now what happens, and sensing the moment

with the seven of us is if you can actually believe that,

well then you can imagine how much time you spend

on completely different things,

which leads to actually making.

What I figured out, and why the Gary V content model

was such a big hit when I put it out is

cool, first I needed the reactions that I just got,

second, now you decide how do you build the most

efficient infrastructure to extract the most content out.

- I think that's the problem, is like, for me,

is that there's so much content to potentially be created.

- It's why--

- How do you do it in a cost effective way?

- It's why I want people to build podcasts.

Let me explain why, I think podcasts is a triple arbitrage.

One, you get the podcast, and people are listening

in the world today.

Two, you film the podcast,

which gives you an ungodly amount of post-production

capabilities to, I mean, you guys are most likely here

because you're aware of me,

this is how you became aware of me, you know?

The post-production capabilities of that filming

give you three, four, seven, 12,

yet one mother load piece of content for your

YouTube and Facebook video, you then get,

the potential to have six to 19 pieces of other content

that come from a moment or two,

and then the third arbitrage and the triple arbitrage

is your guest.

- Cause then you're multiplying your explosion?

- I'm doing something right now that's super interesting.

Literally in the last two days I've posted a question

for Mark Cuban, and yesterday a question from Shawn Mendes.

- [Guy] He went to high school with my son.

Is that right?

That's awesome.

So, you know, it's working,

and they both, neither question was so,

I mean Cuban's for sure was super narrow for Instagram,

it's hiring, that's LinkedIn more than Instagram.

Shawn's question is a little more passion,

little bit more that works,

but both over indexed it, both over a million views

on Instagram, which is a high water mark for me

because they have brand equity.

So you can imagine, you know, this is why the ask,

you know, I know you guys have heard this,

watch what I'm doing, not what I'm saying,

the Ask Gary V Show was a quick early tell

of how smart I understood this.

I started a Q&A show

because I didn't have to do anything to create the content,

the content was, I was put on third and a half base,

I need to give myself awareness that

I understand what I'm talking about in my world

and I'm quick to think and I can do it,

everyday somebody walked in and asked me four questions,

I just answered them.

- So easy.

- The questions were happening on Twitter,

which inherently created more awareness of me

because people saw people asking me questions.

So I'm very good at, do you see where I'm going?

I'm very good at creating frameworks

which led to me what ended up being the holy grail

of I'm just fucking film myself as often as humanly possible

and post-produce.

- And when you post your podcast,

sometimes they're in person?

- You wanna get real crazy, apologize?

I've never said this out loud.

This entire program was built on that thesis.

Not on the other thesis.

I'm gonna put myself in a room to answer more specific

business questions for the content, fuck the revenue.

- Can I ask the basic question, just what is,

tell me what a podcast is, like on Spotify?

Like, spoken?

Is that live or active, or it's just?

- It's post-produced.

Like you record either you talking, or a conversation,

and then you upload it.

- Anywhere?

- To everywhere.

- Everywhere.

- That accepts it.

Which is why, you know, it's funny,

I was a big advocate, maybe you were following me

at this point, of this app called Anchor,

that got bought by Spotify, ironically.

And everybody thought like I was an investor,

things of that nature, I just like,

I just wanted to be historically correct.

I wish I had invested in, it would've made sense.

But I was not really investing at that time

because it made it super easy, you could literally record

it on your phone, and then hit one button,

and it would've uploaded to all the podcast platforms,

and I still think that's how it works,

or maybe they shut it down, I don't know.

But everyday technology advances to make shit easier.

It used to be hard to get on the internet.

Podcast excites me for a lot of reasons.

Cause it's a triple arbitrage.

You're making audio, and if you hire a writer,

you're actually quadruple arbitraging,

now you can turn it into written form, the transcription.

- What about if you just use this technology.

- I'm always into.

Everybody when they kind of, you know,

a lot of people are in no culture, right,

that is not true for the six of you,

you wouldn't be doing what you're doing

if you weren't into yes culture.

But as you can imagine, most people are into no culture,

and the easy thing for everybody to say to me,

especially now that people are becoming more aware of me,

they're like easy for you Gary, you have a whole team,

I'm like I didn't have a team for eight fucking years,


I have a team because I did it for a decade,

which eventually gave me leverage to have a team.

- So you earned the team.

- I fucking did everything, I fucking did it.

I mean, the first version of me to society was on Twitter

outside of my YouTube wine show,

and it was built on the fact that I spent seven hours

a day on Twitter replying to everybody

that was talking about wine.

Every one of the seven of us can go on Twitter right now,

search a key word of anything to do with our business

and literally jump into a conversation

as if we were at a chamber of commerce event

and biz developing.

People are either not educated, or just hate the fact

that the game is predicate on quite a bit of a lot of work.

You know, like this $1.80 strategy that I put out,

everybody who does it gets results

because nobody's replying to comments,

so when you do, it stands out.

Everyone's like I wanna grow my Instagram,

I'm like I'm aware selfish motherfucker,

what about being selfless and actually reply

to the eight people,

you just posted an hour ago, eight fuckers said something,

and you didn't have the humility

or foresight to reply to them?

You just had the audacity to ask

why you didn't get 12 comments.

You literally posted something, people literally replied,

and you left.

It's like giving a presentation in a business format,

people asking you questions from the presentation

and you walking out of the room and going home.

That's what people do everyday on Instagram

and then they're baffled why they're not growing

because everybody cares about themselves.

And that's not what the audience likes to feel.

You guys watch me cause I was bringing value.

- [Man] Do you think that there was some magic

to you starting on Twitter and being deeply

involved in one platform?

Cause I think one of the--

- No, I think it's a talent game.

I think about this like Deion Sanders.

If you're capable of playing baseball and football,

you play it.

So for me, it wasn't that I was deeply involved in that,

cause I was deeply involved in YouTube,

and blog and bulletin boards,

which was fucking OG shit that mattered.

So, no, it that's I'm a great communicator

and love getting my hands dirty,

and as patience fuck,

so all that mixed into a very good formula,

but, you know, I also notice in the history,

since I've been a professional,

I've been on every arbitrage,

Google AdWords, e-commerce, email,

YouTube, social media, everything,

except one thing, there's a huge gap in my resume

from 2002 to 2006, and that was the blog era.

Remember, blogs exploded.

Because I didn't have infrastructure around me

and because I can't write for shit,

I just had to sit there frustrated as fuck,

and watch it pass me.

I would've had the number one blog in wine in 2004,

I knew it was happening.

There's nothing that's gonna happen in consumer behavior

and communication that I'll ever miss until the day I die.

And now the reason I built the machine is to

always be able to take advantage of it,

but, I missed, like, it's a fun thing,

you know, I've never, I don't think I've really said

this out loud either, it's the one gap in my resume.

I couldn't write.

Self awareness.

- [Man] Do you feel like focus is a challenge

for small businesses, cause it's like

you go to a thing like this.

- I think, no, I don't think focus is a challenge,

I think people not mapping their

execution to their ambition.

I don't think it's focus, I think it's excuses.

I think people talk a big thing

that they wanna 100 million dollar company

but aren't willing to do the sacrifices, nor should they.

If one isn't passionate enough or happy enough

to sacrifice golf or family time or leisure,

then they shouldn't.

But I think focus is,

I'm running out of time or focus is the great

entrepreneurial excuse for my actions

don't match my ambitions.

I think we need a huge culture of I wanna

build a $400,000 business.

I think the number one thing that will lead to so

much more happiness in our society

is people raising their hand and saying

I'm gonna build a $480,000 business.

Meaning net profit,

I'm gonna do a million in revenue, $520,000 expenses,

and I'm gonna fucking love life.

I want that, you know, I think people are so confused

at times what I'm actually saying.

I want to buy the New York Jets.

Most people should not, or do not, you know, or don't.

So, no, I don't think it's focus.

I think people actually don't wanna put in the hour of work

in replying to their DMs because they're not hungry enough

because it doesn't make them happy enough,

and that's super okay.

But right now, entrepreneurship is in the same place

that college was 20 years ago,

where everybody has to get a degree.

Right now everybody has build a huge business.

Which is counter to what the internet allows,

which is the internet's the greatest place

to build small businesses.

Got it?

So, I think, and that's why I push, like,

this is how, this is how my content evolved.

My 2012, 13, 14, 15 content was very tactical

cause I don't wanna be a motivational speaker,

but then like, being deeply, and making this content,

I started looking at the comments, listening,

and I'm like fuck, this is a mental game.

This is people's frameworks of how they see things.

You have to put yourself, ready?

Back to looping it all the way back.

We have to put you in a position

that you enjoy the process that lends itself

to the biggest output of content.

So instead of a podcast,

maybe you're doing a probono event for organizations

for female employees always,

but what you're really doing is filming it.

I publicly speak for two reasons,

I enjoy it, like genuinely enjoy it,

and, it's unbelievably effective

for top of the funnel creative for me

for things that I'm trying to aspire to do.

Number three is, it's a fuck load of money

for an hour of speech.

You know?

- [Male] One of the things I'm struggling with is,

you know when you say your default is the hustle of heart,

I find that that's my default as well,

that if I can handle and grow something by--

- Shear will.

- [Male] Yeah, and then as things grow,

and you get a few more runs, and things are bigger,

and you almost have to trust other people

and things stop growing the same pace

and you wish that you were all in one thing

but you actually can't take your eye off the ball

with other stuff, so you can't go all in

as you did at the very start.

- Because you're trying to win games 31 to 27.

And I'm trying to win games 210 to 209.

- [Male] Because you just play longer game?

- It's not longer, it's that I don't care about

at the fact that anybody who touches it besides me

is doing it at a 60 to 70% version of me,

because I don't get to judge for the customer.

Owners overreact on the customer's behalf.

Got it?

Just cause you know what you would've done if you did it,

I don't have to have my client feel the delta

between what I would do, versus what Sinan would do,

I need them to feel what the difference is between Sinan

and any other agency would do.

And owners get fucked up,

and think about the difference between them and

their employees, which is why they all micromanage,

which is why they don't build big businesses.

It's cool, right?

You know, I got, you know what's funny,

I'm having a moment with myself right now,

here's what happened.

My dad is so the polar opposite of me

that I got to grow up, and I was so different naturally

that I actually got to watch both ways play out

in extremes.

My dad's two highest paid employees,

for the entire course of him running the liquor store

worked the register

because he didn't want people to steal.

My cousin, and the most senior other employee

were the cashiers.

There were literally customers walking on the floor,

looking for help, you could've gotten

much more percentage of their wallet

and he didn't want that, he wanted them at the register

because he played defense against stealing.

Got it?

That's why.

You're in that framework, that's your perspective.

You're fearing that you don't know what's Karen's

gonna do with it, and thus you may lose it.

So you're going there.

What I'm doing is getting two more,

knowing that Karen's gonna keep it five to nine

out of 10 times anyway.

I couldn't get those two if I'm sitting here

making sure Karen doesn't lose it.

That's what it is, I promise you, that's what it is.

And then what, what I'm good at is

getting better at picking the Karens.

Karen sucks, Rick,

Rick sucks, Susan,

Susan sucks, Sally,

Jamal, Kenish, Juki.

(twisting tongue)

- [Male] But with nothing that,

you know, many people have different styles

and different way to skin a cat,

kind of your way is the hustle way, excuse those words,

but it's very getting your hands dirty,

and even they're talented individuals

and you can trust them and you need big teams to grow,

you know, because other companies grow with VC

or partnerships, or different stuff, like,

if you're doing a grass roots organically,

that, at some point you have to be involved in,

at some point that's spirit and that tenacity

needs to be there.

- Sure.

- [Male] It needs to have a part of you in it.

- I have 900 employees in Singapore, London,

Los Angeles, and New York, I understand.

I do not feel it doesn't have me in it.


the entire company's out of here at 6 p.m.

Except my team.

I don't require my employees to live the

same framework I live.

That's the other, that was the other, I mean,

we're getting meadow with dad today,

it's another thing that just popped in my mind,

my dad would spend all this time complaining

about employees not doing it his way,

I'm like why don't you make them your partner.

If they're your equal partner in your liquor store

they'll probably work as hard as you.

You're paying them $6.05 an hour.

Owners are audacious.

So it's you're either losing,

and that's what I believe, leaving opportunity on the table,

out of audacity, or ideology.

Both are bad.

You know?

- [Man] So was that ever a struggle for you.

- Nope.

But like, but that--

- [Man] From Twitter to your first person

that started out, first hire,

it was like, okay I can just do this

and you were able to kind of turn?

- Well, you're talking about from a content standpoint,

for me as a personal brand, I never gave it up.

I still post everything.

Like back to not having grammar skills,

when I write a little bit on an Instagram post,

you can sniff it out.

You know?

I don't make it, they're in post production.

But I just titled the post that's going up in

an hour and 24 minutes.

I just literally walked by Daniel's desk,

watched the King Bach question,

thought about what I wanted to say,

and actually titled it.

That doesn't mean I won't let them title too.

But the posting I'll do and the copy I write.

That's why we created team Gary V accounts.

It's me.

Nobody believes it's me.

- [Guy] Cause it's so much content.

- Because it's devastating when you think about,

like the amount of people that,

the people that follow me have some version of

not wanting to be like me but are living

similarish lives and they're saying for themselves,

all right, he's running 1000 person company,

like they're looking at everything and they're like,

and they're running a six person company

and they're not posting on their behalf.

They can't even begin to start the process

of thinking it's me.

But I value the trenches.

And people value the ivory towers.

And that is why nobody scares me.

- [Woman] But also that's probably why your content is so

performant is because it's authentically you.

- 100%.

- [Woman] 100% and that's what's different,

and so, very frequently that's not.

- And, I know what I'm talking about.

Like, if you really like look at the landscape,

people are pontificating for the sake

of being a motivational speaker or a thought leader.

This is why I'm so bullish on you.

You actually have the skillset.

If tomorrow I started a wine only program

I would be the biggest in five minutes if I was not me.

I have the knowledge, you know, like,

I would be a top five sports caster

in our society right now if I started.

I know a lot about sports,

and I know how the framework works.

I'd be bigger than Stephen A. Smith, I promise.

It wouldn't even take me that long, Stephen.


That's a compliment to Stephen that I used him

as the context but he wouldn't win.

- [Male] I was like what is the game you chose?

- Yeah, that's a compliment, but like,

the audacity is very high in my body

and I would deliver cause I know the consumer

and I know how to get the awareness.


- Stores.

- Physical? - Physical retail stores.

- Your own, or selling wholesale?

- Our own.

- How many?

- We have five right now.

And what we've been doing is we've been able to get

percentage of sales deals.

And so we have--

- Cause real estate's fucked.

- Yeah, real estates fucked.

- I love it.

I love it.

You know, back to like, under priced attention,

everyone's shitting on retail.

And I think is gonna be a golden era for retail.

You're dead in retail if you signed your lease six years ago

and have 14 years to go.

If you're buying real estate today,

there is some arbitrage.

- Right, we don't have any long term.

So, almost month to month.

Like we can pull out whenever we want.

- Yep, go ahead.

- And I've been working the stores.

- Love it.

- So I've been learning a lot,

and I think what's missing is the story

that I've seen develop from my dad from 2010

to 2019, and what I mean by that is,

you know, people will come in and there's such a demand

for athletic clothing, they'll buy without leaving,

without really understanding that.

And it's hard to, you know,

train your, you do your best to train your sales associates

on the story.

- You should tell the stories before they walk in,

and after they walk in,

and not rely on it being in the store.

- Okay.

- It should be apart of it.

- Right.

- But your control from the top is extraordinary.

- And that's what I wanna do here is I really wanna show

where the values of the business are,

and I think, you know, what my dad values,

and something we were talking about recently was,

he said, he's like I don't really care about making money,

I just wanna express my creativity

and create a great product.

- I understand.

- And I want that to, you know,

I want everyone in the business to know that,

and I want every customer to know that.

- Listen, I have had a really intriguing time

with myself in the last year of realizing how much

money is unbelievably not interesting to me.

So I understand that and believe it could be true.

I like it as a competitor cause it's a scoring mechanism.

Obviously I wanna buy the Jets and realize

I'm not gonna win it, I'm not gonna buy them on karma.

But I get it.

- Yeah, and that's--

- Happiness, happiness.

- That was the whole idea was he saw

what the crappier companies were doing to the

bigger beer distributors and he wanted to do

the same thing with apparel.

- And by the way, by the way, why stories

and contextual stories and contemporary stories matter

against all odds, some of the stuff we're doing

with Budweiser around actually telling stories,

whether Women's World Cup, or D Wade,

this is why big companies,

when Goliath starts understanding how to act like David

good shit can happen for Goliath.

- Yeah, so I guess my question is

I wanna be able to convey that

and I've been thinking about where to start whether,

I mean I'm hearing podcast a lot.

- Podcast, YouTube,

I mean this is super, like,

it's literally just a game of starting.

- Yeah, and I mean you can get into the weeds of like

paid ads and all that stuff, but I think,

I really just wanna nail the story first

and get that out there.

- But I've got some good news.

The story's a piece of cake.

You're not correct,

you're not Vince McMahon and Walt Disney.

You have a literal actual story.

It's why mine's so easy.

I sold lemonade, I sold baseball cards,

I bagged ice, like, it's not like,

I didn't have to think about it.

- That's true.

- What was your dad thinking in 2007

that led him to 2010?

Like you can do this in perpetuity.

What happened in 1979?

You know, like you can do this in perpetuity.

- Yeah.

- So you're over thinking it.

- Yeah, just start.

- Just tell it.

- Tell it.

- Just tell it. - Yeah.

- Like take your fucking phone and stick it

in your dad's face and let him talk and post it.

- Yeah.

- And then read the comments and be like oo,

people like that part.

(clicking tongue)

Bottom up, everyone's top down.

Everyone's like I'm gonna figure it out

and they're gonna like it.

I'm like I have no fucking idea,

I'm gonna watch what they like.

Got it? - Yeah.

- Just fucking post.

I mean, I literally look like a hostage in the Middle East

in like my fucking first Wine Library TV episodes.

Like, (chuckling)

literally I look at them like, that's like cliche

1984 hostage situation shit.

- And my question is, you say like fuck figures,

stuff like that. - Yes.

- For me that's like easy once I get to know people.

- Okay.

- You know, but however when it's new,

it's not like that. - I understand.

- And that's how I kind of came to about knowing you.

- Okay.

- And the people that do know me, yep,

like I'll go on a rant with them

and they'll be like holy shit have you ever read this guy?

- Yeah, and you're like who the fuck is this guy?

- And it's for like, similar ways like I'll,

I never, like I'll dress regularly,

I don't give two shits what my hair looks like,

just most of the time just put a hat on cause it's that bad

and just straight work hustle.

Cause I'll post anything,

I literally don't give a shit about Facebook,

about any of it. - Okay.

- But when it's in, like I guess in person,

or like this, it's a little bit different.

- That's okay.

- It's like how do you break out of that?

- Practice.

- But when you're hustling 24/7, like as,

you know what I mean?

- Yeah, yeah.

- I mostly work Friday 8 a.m., you go home Sunday.

- I get it, I did it.

It still doesn't change, it still doesn't change

the answer to your question.

- Wait what's his question?

What part about doing it in person?

- Yeah, I guess, yeah.

- And why do you want that to happen?

Is that in real human life,

or is that for business purposes.

- No, real, like, human life,

because when, so you can be yourself,

and then that's a little bit.

- Here's my thing, this may, you know,

I don't know if this is gonna liberate you,

but I can't believe how much this is,

after working through, but practice,

talk, talk, talk, think, think, think,

the reason I'm good in both, I think,

or, that's not a good word, comfortable in both,

is cause I know that nobody knows me all the way.

I don't mind, you're just talking about judgment.

You do know that, it's just judgment.

And by the way, same with me, I'm a tough guy on video,

and on stage I'm far more passive.

Like I'm high energy.

Like ask Nick, ask Sinan, ask them,

like, I'm very passive, non confrontational,

like very much in real life.

It's just, context matters.

So I understand how people can be different,

but what you're referring to,

inner personal, new, first time networking,

or what have you, it's judgment.

You actually value the person's judgment.

Which I actually understand, we all have that.

Here's my thing on judgment.

They don't have the context to be able to judge you.

The reason, but it's also,

here's what's a very important part,

what people don't understand about this is the following,

the reason I can deal with people misjudging me,

and plenty people do, often,

is because I also don't listen to people

that give me accolades.

The reason people are so vulnerable to judgment

is cause they thirst accolades.

- Cause they care what other people think.

- They thirst a claim, they get it,

but then when they get negative feedback

they've already put feedback on a pedestal.

I can't hear either.

You know?

Do you know how flattering it feels

for somebody to say they have goosebumps

that you walk into a room?

Like, like, just comprehending that right now

as I say it out loud is wild, it's so flattering.

I don't know what else to say, it's just like

remarkably flattering, however,

how that synthesizes through my body is equal

to somebody saying that I'm a snake oil salesman.

That's why I'm able to deal with everything.

I just know that you don't know who I am.

And I don't know who you are.

- [Male] If your legacy is that you own the baseball team.

- Football.

- [Male] Football team.

- It's okay, get this man out of here.


- [Male] If that's your legacy.

- That won't be my legacy.

- Speaking of judgment.

- But go ahead.

- [Male] But if it's something that you achieve,

but if you, if this is the greatest human organization,

is that enough, like is it okay that you do it

through communications and through advertising,

or do you think that this is a stepping stone

you say for broader?

- I think the question becomes for whom.

You know, when you ask is it okay,

for me, you mean?

I assume that would the right set.

For me, the, I don't, buying the New York Jets is

my ambition, the process of trying is my happiness.

- [Male] Yeah.

- I've already won, it's over.

- [Male] You already have won.

- It's over. - [Male] Okay.

- I don't want the trophies, I want the process.

Once I started putting a lot of pieces of my life together,

I dropped the Yankees and the Rangers

when they won their championships.

I stopped following them

because I don't want what most people want

which is to wear those hats and jerseys to give

me self esteem from an outside force,

I have my own self esteem, I want the chase.

I used to judge myself that used to just want

girls to like me and that was enough.

Like I didn't understand that,

I thought I was a bad person, right?

Like, you know, that was just like not,

like I would talk to my mom about it,

be like I just want to get them to like me,

I don't even want, I wasn't even about like hooking up

and not talking to them, just the process of could I,

and it felt like, it felt bad in that format,

but in real life,

it's actually a very good format of happiness.

You're not looking for that validation or that trophy,

you just like your game.

I'm just so happy.

- [Male] I guess my question stems from the

personal branding part because for me personal branding

in the history of advertising is kind of sad, actually,

in a way, but you're actually, you're an inspiration to many

for non-advertising related industries.

- Yes, correct.

- [Male] But actually, because of what you've done

you're an inspiration, you know,

you're already up there with the legendary

advertising figures like Google and those guys.

- Wait, you're being very flattering,

like, what I don't think people understand

what I'm really up to, and you're starting to go down

that path, and I don't want you to steal my thunder,

so I'm jumping in, I think

I'm gonna break the whole history of it.

- [Male] Do you recognize and do you know that that's?

- Yes, I'm excited about it.

I'm excited that it's not about Vayner becoming

a billion dollar holding co, which it will,

I'm excited that 21 year old Karen

is gonna start a great shop

and never sell it to Publicis.

The only way you break our industry

is don't let the bankers buy up all the shops.

I don't do that by building a huge company,

I do that by inspiring an entire generation of 20 year olds

to build a shop and be happy with 1.3 million

kicking $400,000,

and enjoying the work life balance

in the way they decide it should be done,

not whatever's politically correct at the moment.

Work life balance is gonna be super differently

politically correct when the world melts.

There's going to be a different point of view

of how you should do it.

So, yes, for sure.

Yeah, my, I wanna be the greatest entrepreneur

of all time because it's a fun thing to aspire to,

and it will not come in making the most money.

It will come in the form of bringing the most value

to the most entrepreneurs in the world.

And I think I got a shot cause I'm 43 and I'm far along

and have a lot of leverage and momentum

and I have 50 fucking more years, at least, to do it.

So, if I buy the New York Jets in the following execution

I'm in perpetuitily known that the Jets come up for sale

in 17 years but I have not amassed enough money

but every entrepreneur that I've affected with free value

kicks in and we buy them.

That's a fucking good ending to a movie.

- [Woman] That's a super cool coup.

- Feels better.

(distant commentary)

Just think about, you know, sometimes I think about that,

and honestly I'd prefer to do it myself at some level

but I kind of think that that's kind of cool too,

and was like, and the movement of like prefer to do it

myself to what I just painted you has gone like this, right?

Which means probably in 10 years I'm gonna be like fuck it

I'm gonna crowd source the whole thing, right, like,

you know, it's super interesting how life actually works.

I think karma is the most practical thing on earth.

I really, really do.

- [Man] Was there a transition from goal focused

to journey focused?

- 100%

- [Man] What'd that transition look like?

- It was awareness of what I was up to

in the thoughtful moments of my life.

There wasn't a tangible thing,

it wasn't that I consumed anything,

it was just higher level of self awareness.

It was always there,

it's what I was always doing, I just didn't realize it.

So it was really subconscious to conscious awareness

of journey over, right?

- [Man] What awakened your self awareness,

did you intentionally?

Did that happen through like meditation or something?

Or did it just come out you.

- No, no.

And again, I'm not educated enough on how

we describe meditation, like,

like this is funny to say out loud,

I talk to myself all the time.

I don't know if I'm meditating,

I don't know if that's what everybody does,

I don't know what you guys are doing, but like,

I don't know, if I'm taking a shower,

or like on a plane, or like, it's just very common

for me to be thinking an talking, not like hey Gary,

it's not that literal, but it's like I'm always thinking.

I'm in tune, and I'm in tune with myself.

And like, me.

I'm not paying attention to out,

it's why I don't consume a lot.

I figured out what brings me escapism, the Jets.

You know?

There's things that bring me escapism,

which I think we all need.

Some golf, some vacation a lot, some read,

that's fine, consuming movies,

I understand escapism, that took a while,

and like oh that's why I like it.

You know, actually that one came pretty intuitively

pretty quickly, by the time I was in my mind 20s

I'm like oh the Jets are good for me,

but I took it very literal, I was like

oh the Jets play during the holiday season of Wine Library

and because it's so hard,

it's so nice to have this thing on Sundays

that after working 150 hours a week from Monday to Saturday

and that was very literal but now it's macro, right?

Like, there's only one thing on earth,

and it's the New York Jet that when I'm in it

nothing else matters, truly.

Literally you could tap me on the shoulder and say

the internet has been disabled, alcohol has been banned,

and we're taking your voice out of your body,

and I'm like cool, just let me watch the third quarter.

And that's an incredible thing to have.

And I wish that on everybody.

And I think people have it.

I think they have it.

I'm more, I think escapism is very good,

I think a lot of people use leisure to

escape their unhappiness of their profession.

I think a lot of people,

that's where I get kind of worried.

You know, are you really into golf and movies and all

this stuff cause you actually hate your nine to five?

Which is still no matter what

gonna take up a big percentage.

Who's got questions?

- [Guy] Well I'll just get, if I could.

- Please, yeah, this was a little bit,

I think people are asking, we can keep bouncing.

- [Guy] My spiel is kind of like you and your dad,

like he taught me to be successful to be happy,

and I always argued, no I wanna be happy to be successful.

And, you know, I'm kind of a disciple like Dan Millman,

Way of the Peaceful Warrior, that's kind of what I.

- What is that?

I apologize.

- [Guy] It's just a way of looking at.

- The world?

- [Guy] Developing peak performance in athletics.

- Understood.

- [Guy] Okay, so I am approaching my business,

as a start up I haven't sold a thing yet.

- Okay.

- [Guy] Is I feel like I'm my own customer

and I know how advertisers are getting to me

so why don't I emulate what they're doing

to try to get to other people like me that

maybe wanna follow their hearts or break 80

or become on the, you know, make it on the PGA tour.

And, I've seen that through Facebook funnel marketing

that gets you to a website that has content,

and then the content might lead to something else.

- I apologize, my wife text me something, I apologize.

Go to the last part, I apologize.

- [Guy] So the last part is if I'm my own customer.

- Yes.

You're scratching the own itch.

- [Guy] This warrior trying to, you know.

- I see, understand, go ahead.

- [Guy] Should I, I know how people market to me

and I buy it and it's through Facebook funnel marketing.

- Okay.

- [Guy] Advertisers, every fifth post on my Facebook

is a, guy just trying to suck me into a funnel,

and why buy everything, why because I wanna learn

about what they're doing,

I wanna see what the hell

good content, bad content, whatever.

- Yeah, you're coming from a B to B approach

more than a B to C approach.

- [Guy] Okay, so.

- Right?

Think about that, right?

Like, even the fact that you're aware that this is a funnel

means you're thinking about it more as a B to B approach

than a B to C approach.

- [Guy] Not 100% sure I understand.

- Let me say it again, when you see that stuff

you're aware of what that stuff's trying to do to you

and you're probably looking at it to see

if you can learn anything for you to do

it to somebody else.

- [Guy] That's right.

- Okay, you're doing B to B.

B to C is you're just doing it for people

that actually like golf.

So where you need to be careful,

this is why the whole information selling

ecosystem was built, like, all the stuff

that I'm not as fond of, which is lowest common

denominator marketing, like is everybody's watching,

it's somebody higher up the pyramid to them

and buying their course or their thing

in the back of the room, just to,

they're actually buying it so they

can do it to somebody else.

- [Guy] Well even if I reverse my mentality

and put the customer first and I am B to C,

or, I've got to choose the outlet that I reach them through.

- Yes, the outlet's simple.

Like, we can give you, the outlet,

there's nothing easier than figuring out the outlet.

You follow me, and you watch everything I do everyday.

It's the biggest tell of all time.

Why am I asking for your cell number?

For my health?

Cause I think it's funny?

No, because for 20 years I understand

where the consumer's going next

and texting is open for business.

Where you deploy it my friend, you've already figured out.

Follow me, I'll give you all the information for free

by you watching what I'm doing.

What you need to figure out that you're actually

doing it for the end consumer not for somebody

who's done trying to, like that's the problem,

that's where those thing.

- [Guy] Well my goal is to inspire the broken hearted,

the people that didn't live their dreams,

I want them to do it.

- I think that's amazing.

- [Guy] I want them to be empowered to do it.

- What are you selling them?

- [Guy] A way of finding peace,

I'm actually selling them,

the actual product is how do you get into the zone,

like I've played sports my whole life.

- And, I understand that, in what format?

In what container?

- Well initially a web format where

there's content and content teaches it,

but actually content is a teaser to get into

more direct coaching, interactive.

- Understood.

So I think the reality is is that

as long as you're coaching for that specific thing

you're gonna have a much better chance than coaching them

for the sake of coaching, and what you need to do

in my opinion, this is where people's personal brands

get destroyed is value people,

value filtering the right people who you believe

will get value versus anybody who will write a check.

- Okay.

- I mean, I could have a 50 million dollar

a month mastermind at this point.

I mean, probably not, but like, it could be real big.

You know?

There's just an awfully long line of people

that wanna pay me $50,000 a month to like hang out with me.

But that would lead to the quick erosion of my brand.

This was hard for me,

in a world where I wanted the content,

this was hard.

A full Disney and Zappos, like $10,000 thing,

but I was worried that it was too close

to things I don't believe in.

That's why it's only an hour of me.

I needed to not be that.

I needed to be way more Disney,

and, you know, be our guest, Danny Meyer,

and Zappos, this is Vayner, this is Claude,

this is Vayner Nick.

I'm thrilled, I like, literally,

if I didn't want the content I wouldn't do it.

I'm very aware that less people would sign up,

that's super great.

I leave money on the table all the time.

That's 4Ds.

So you can imagine if this, right,

once and a while people try to rouse me

like you were monetizing 4Ds,

I'm like motherfucker if I was monetizing my audience

I wouldn't do it in something that at the end of the day,

you know how much I'm making on the $12,000,

personally, once it funnels through the machine

and overhead, and my partnership with Steve Ross,

$80, $800, whatever it is, I promise you,

it's not as interesting as other shit I could be doing.

It's the same reason I sell wine and sneakers.

If I'm going to do anything with my community

it needs to be about passions of mine

and things they may be doing otherwise.

Like, if you buy, I don't want anybody who only

wears sandals to buy my K. Swiss.

I want people to consider it versus

another pair of sneakers.

I don't want anybody who doesn't drink wine

to buy Empathy.

If you're going BevMo! or fucking Total Wine,

and I've brought you value,

I want you to sign up for Empathy,

not to mention the fact that then on top of that

I'm producing a $40 wine for $20,

you know what I mean?

So like, that's how I think about shit,

you see where I'm going?

It's very important, otherwise you'll just be like

everybody else and that industry continues to decline.

Too many people like me giving it away for free.

- [Male] This is a question related to what you said

about coming next and related to what your vision was

when you set up Vayner Media.

Where are you on blockchain in terms of media

with Bitcoins like Dodge and Basic Attention Token

and those ones?

- It's too early, I'm watching it.

- [Male] But, and would you,

would you then change your vision and go all in

on something like that?

- Yeah, I mean that's the best world for me.

Like when you have the leverage you don't want

anybody in the middle to take anything.

- [Man] Essentially what you said

about advertising agencies.

- [Male] But would it need to relate to the vision

I've created in a great human organization,

the world's greatest?

Like imagine if block chain and your bet

didn't really have as many people,

imagine if it was robots and you were no longer

the world's greatest organization.

- The market is more powerful than my ambition.

So if in your extreme scenario, if it's robots,

then it's robots, like, I don't have any interest

in fighting tidal waves.

- [Man] Fight them?

- Yeah, I mean I just don't understand

how people fight against technology.

It's undefeated.

- [Male] But a lot of it, a lot of it needs

to be destructed in some industries,

a lot of it causes corruption and things like that.

- Always.

There's nothing more corrupt

than countries printing currency.

You know, what I think what's fun about you

is like, you like to get philosophical, like,

this can get real, you can stay on this forever,

or it can get real simple, like, it just depends

on what perspective you wanna take with your conversations.

You know?

Like, I mean you could take this to the moon,

but like I think where people get caught up

in the philosophical conversations of technology advances

is they move too fast.

One of the things I'm most proud of,

as like a micro bet in the last three or four years is VR.

I mean, if you look carefully enough

at my content three, four years ago,

two years ago, four years ago, I was so on it,

everybody was hot, Magic Leap this, VR that,

CS 2017 was all about VR, VC funds VR,

VR, VR, and I was, yes,

and I was extremely loud saying this is not close.

Cause I don't guess.

I bought Bitcoin in 2014.

But I'm not a blockchain expert.

I'm not into gold rushes.

I grew up in the alcohol,

I owned in 1997.

I've been on cannabis, but I'm not a cannabis expert.

I'm patient, and thoughtful,

and pay attention.

I don't need to brand myself as an expert

or like, do you know how many people,

literally that we all know on Twitter or other things,

have in the last four years been a social media expert,

a blockchain expert, and a cannabis expert?

And there's nothing wrong with chasing,

I mean there's a lot of quick money to be made.

And I don't judge, it's just not what I'm interested in.

And so timing matters to me.

And so for example, if we're gonna go practical

on the blockchain conversation, we got a long way to go.

We also have Russia, China, and America to fight.

You think they're gonna give it up so fast?

People are so naive about blockchain,

blockchain undermines the whole thing.

If blockchain wins, then the only thing countries

have are weapons, cause if you take away the peer to peer

infrastructure of currency, it gets real weird, real fast.

Whoever the fucking Illuminati are

they're not about blockchain.

- [Guy] Who do you think they are?

- I don't know.

It's really funny, like I so don't believe in it,

I couldn't believe in it less.

I think it's the subconscious insecurity of man and woman

that creates the Illuminati.

People desperately like to think

somebody else has control.

I don't.

- [Man] Accountability.

- Accountability brother, ugh, you got it.

Accountability is my Illuminati.

You know?

- [Woman] That's a tweet.

- Yep.

You know, how about we actually take

accountability into play?

America is deeply racist, guess what, you can move.

You could.

You could, I mean, I'm in America from religious

persecution, I'm a refuge.

Being Jewish in post World War II, Soviet Russia

meant both my grandfathers spent significant time in jail

for being Jewish.

Like, I hate when people are naive.

We have so many shortcomings in America,

but life's about alternatives.

Like it's just, I don't know, like,

I don't know, I hate so many things.

Anything that isn't kind and wonderful to people

I'm against.

It's just that like how are you gonna boil that ocean?

You know, it's just like, and by the way,

like people can say easy for you to say,

I fully understand that.

Cool, I'll take it, easy for me to say.

Now, like, then it's just a comma of now what?

Like your happiness doesn't come on blaming, you know?

Like it just is what it is.

The internet, and honestly, I wouldn't

have talked like this pre-internet.

I mean it.

I think the internet is grossly underrated.

- I have a question for you on a separate topic.

Earlier you talked about breaking things,

and that, you know, like we were talking about

the advertising industry, and the marketing industry,

and you're like I wanna break this.

And I also wanna just basically break

everything about women's health.

- Love.

- And really build technology that seems impossible.

And what advice do you have for like

someone who is tackling similar mission?

- Tell the truth, and make content at scale.

That's it.

It's why I like cannabis.

I failed all my science classes and suck

at anything to do with health knowledge.

But deeply, as one human being's subjective intuition,

I deeply believe that cannabis cures

a lot of things that big pharma doesn't.

Like deeply.

Like every ounce of my soul.

And I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I'm like the reverse

cause my dad is such one, you know?

But man, it feels right to me.

And so like I like that there's so much evolution of like

people that have expertise that have thoughts,

and that's what the internet does.

Speak the truth.

If I supported television advertising

and programmatic banner advertising,

Vayner Media would be a billion dollar company today.


I eat my own dog food.

- [Man] Well I was gonna, the make content at scale thing,

which is why I think we're all here in some form or fashion,

often find it challenging,

one, I know I get in my own way a lot,

cause it's like, oh it needs to be perfect,

it'll come from like producing music videos.

- Yeah you're already dead.

And how old are you?

- [Man] 38.

- Right, anybody like over 20 who ever did producing

something is in deep shit for what I believe in.

Cause the whole religion was.

(exciting crosstalk)

Subjective quality.

- [Male] Yeah, right.

- Subjective.

- [Male] Comparing yourself to employees.

- Like is Blair Witch Project quality?

Is a Casey Neistat video, like what is subjective quality?

- [Man] Right, right.

- When Steven Spielberg said Netflix movies

shouldn't be part of it, I was, I laughed so hard inside.

I was like, and now he's finished.

That's literally what went through my mind.

Like literally it was insane how much,

and by the way when I said he's finished,

I meant for one human who gets to make one judgment,

me, I'm like oh he's a loser.

Which blew me away about him because he was really judged

in the late 70s for his film style.

It wasn't supposed to be right.

I hate hypocrisy.

When people get old,

nobody is worse in the world to me

than an old, old, old finished entrepreneur,

because she or he often starts to use their money

to change rules.

It is the flaw of capitalism.

You love it when you're a young lion

and then you wanna change it when you're an old lion.

- [Man] Well so, Nick made a comment earlier,

dull market with the intent of conversion,

and I think a lot around.

- Ugh, he's so right.

- [Man] So, I guess the struggle.

- Conversion is assumed when you bring

value to the audience.

- [Man] Yeah, I guess the struggle is, okay

I've got $10,000 to budget, or 15, or 20, or 50 or whatever,

and it's like, put an ad on Facebook, drive conversion

straight for purchases and get money in the door,

or drive money, you know, put other valuable content

out that's a little more indirect.

- No, no, do that.

No, do that.

- [Man] Okay, but just make sure it's valuable?

- You'll find that it will convert better

when it's valuable.

- [Man] Right, okay, fair enough.

- So what I would do is, ready for this?

I would take $8000 and do the

one move you've got that works.

It's this video against this audience, right?

And I would take $2000 from that 10,000

and try shit, got it?

And then, you understand?

Yeah, I'm practical, I'm not fucking Mother Teresa out here.

By the way, I can't use Mother Teresa anymore.

Like people get crazy,

I guess the conspiracy, I guess she's bad too now.

- [Woman] What did she do?

- I don't fucking, bad!

Yeah there's bad, trust me, I see the comments,

I haven't done the homework yet.

But anyway.

- [Man] Yeah, it also seems like you place

a lot more value on comments than metrics.

I haven't heard you talk about any metrics.

Are comments to you, that's the magic?

- Qualitative insights to help me figure out

where I go next value me,

like I value that so much more than math

that shows me what worked yesterday.

That's why I innovate.

- [Guy] You're not in the rear view mirror.

- I'm not in the rear view mirror.

I innovate.

Lack of fear.

You know?

In that format, similar to Judgment 101,

like I'm not scared to put out a post.

Do you know Instagram especially

has just captured so many people of a generation,

they literally post to maximize likes.

They've killed their own creativity.

People start creative on Instagram,

win, people start following them,

and then they become a robot of the machine

cause they know, do you know how many attractive women,

young women ask me secretly like at a conference

or at a DM of like, I really know a lot about

health and wellness, but when I post that I get 4000 likes

but when I post my ass or my boobs I get 15,000

and I can't stop.

And I'm like okay, how about not having

your self esteem wrapped up in how many

likes you get on Instagram.

But it becomes the machine.

- [Guy] How do you, I mean anywhere there's charlatans.

- But by the way, that's the version of an attractive female

then the version of a life coach is saying something

that isn't, I mean, the people I combat

on a daily basis are saying like, go for the money,

get the car, you know, like, this is what you get

if you cut corners, hot chicks and private planes, and fun,

and it's easy, and it's passive.


- [Guy] A detachment, I mean, if you're.

- Yes.

Yes, I'm completely detached.

I'm so detached I don't even think I'm in this room.

- [Guy] Yeah.

Well it's cause you don't tickle people's ears,

you just, whatever comes in your head comes out your mouth.

It sounds like to me.

- Pretty much.

And I'm so, and, and,

I'm so petrified of being historically incorrect,

that is my North Star.

And that comes in all shapes and sizes.

That's why I don't guess.

Cause I could be wrong,

and that clip couldn't exist.

I don't need somebody, when I'm pontificating,

when the whole world knows who I am,

when I'm said and done I don't need

Rick from Chili raising his hand and say you ripped me off.

Not interested.

I'm old school, bro.

My reputation.

- So what do you want your legacy to be?

- That I gave more than I took.

- Wow.

- I'm just a unique package for such an altruistic ambition

which is why I'm so confusing.

To have somebody who has this kind of framework

that also comes in the form of being a New Jersey immigrant

who loves competition, fucks with the norms.

I'm not a Buddha.

I'm not a third generation insecure

that I had so much money from grandpa that I'm gonna

give it back to the world.

I'm gonna be selfish and selfless on tilt on both forever.

Make sense?

- Awesome, makes a ton of sense.

- Which is why people are super thrown off by some

of my points of view.

It's actually where I think our society's gonna go.

I'm actually really excited, I'm like oh wait a minute,

I think I might be a preview human.

I think what's happening in America and the world

for that matter is left and right are getting

so pulled apart that eventually that breaks

and then we come back to the middle,

and I think I'm practical optimism,

which means I want, like the thought of like demonizing

or winning on fear is just completely unacceptable.

On the flip side, fuck you and your six place trophies.

Like, I understand we all have dreams,

I'm not gonna subsidize that from the top.

So it's, you know?

It's almost like if I'm at a dinner party and talking,

like people are so confused they're not sure where I sit.

You know?

- [Male] On the piece about TV ads and programmatic

and the bits you're leaving on the table,

you know, is there something, what do you think

of the 600 billion dollars spent on advertising

globally, and the consumers get none of it back,

do you think that that would be a way of blowing things up?

- No I don't because if I think if you look

at the last two decades of anything that looks that way

the human then becomes a person that values

their Instagram likes over actual value.

If we incentivize people to watch commercials

everyone loses.

It's a great ideology.

Go read Marxism.

Go read it.

Everybody in this room, if they read

The Seed to Communism, would love it.

Somethings are good on paper.

Sounds great to share the money

with the person that watches the commercial

until we realize what happens in the subconscious.

- [Male] But the sort of loyalty reward products like.

- Yes, delivering value for what you paid for it.

- [Male] Facebook destructed a lot.

They took a big lump out of that.

- How so?

- [Male] As in, so out of nowhere they get

60 billion dollars of advertisement.

- I see.

- [Male] 10%.

- But so did television from radio.

- [Male] So, but you like,

what you'd like to do what Facebook did?

- Me?


I don't build platforms to mass wealth.

I don't build highways,

I like being the best toll booth collector, got it?

I don't create games.

That's a level above me and a different skill set.

I'm just the best player.

I don't wanna invent baseball, I just wanna be Babe Ruth.

Make sense?

- [Woman] I have another question.

- I only speak in fucking analogies,

it's so ridiculous, like I'm like sitting here,

I'm like, it's so weird, it's just like the way,

it makes, you know, it's so funny, like live and like,

man, of course I did well on Twitter,

everybody sat and looked at that thing

and said 140 characters?

I don't even know how to start,

like everyone was crippled in 2007,

and I was like thank God, and then emojis came,

and we started not caring about spelling and auto correct,

I'm like oh my God, I'm back!

Like, literally that's what happened,

that's actually what happened,

that's actually what happened.


- [Woman] So, maybe this is interesting to other people too.

- Please.

- [Woman] So each of us have our own companies,

but also we're here talking about our own

personal brand, and how, you know,

as you're creating all this content,

and I know you have multiple channels,

how do you differentiate between like,

what is the content you're creating

for your company, versus the content you're creating

for your personal brand, and where is the intersection

and the diversion between the two.

- The intersection, diversion, I leave to serendipity,

I don't over think it.

I don't even know who's creating Vayner Media's content.

I'm sure somebody's currently assigned,

which is probably the 37th attempt at it.

I just focus on what I'm doing.

- [Woman] So all of your content you create

goes just on your personal pages.

- That's right.

- [Woman] Okay.

- Yeah, I mean, I'm so intertwined with my business

that the collateral saw dust of what I'm doing

will always be far more effective

than Vayner Media's own content strategy.

- [Woman] Gotcha.

- I believe.

While I'm operational.

I promise you when I buy Puma tomorrow,

probably the first and only thing I'll do

about Vayner Media is the content strategy

cause the collateral changes a little bit.

- [Man] How do you think that maps to the people

in the room who maybe haven't done that already?

Cause I'm picturing.

- This room is so far away from producing

enough of the content they need to be producing

that I don't even worry about that.

People ask me, like I've gotten into so much

parenting content that like I get some fun stuff

and they're like, Gary, my daughter's three,

I'm really thinking about when she's 18,

I'm like bro, I'm like let's worry about four.

That's how I think about it.

There's so much more to be done right now still on that

that I'm not just even worried about it.

You know, it's funny, I spend a lot of time,

which is why it's so fun to talk with you

on the super up here which is where you're at,

and then super down here, and nothing in the middle.


I have the macro thesis of what I think human

beings are doing with technology advances,

and that's it, and then I'm spending

all my time on execution and minutia,

and I think everybody's in the middle.

They're not being thoughtful enough about the macro

and they're not making.

- Everything's boring.

- Everyone's just not making.

I don't know what to say.

You're not making enough.

Thank you guys.

- [All] Thank you so much.

The Description of The Biggest Vulnerability to Every Business | Inside 4Ds