Practice English Speaking&Listening with: Windbelt Cheap Generator Alternative

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KYLE: My player is Shawn Frayne. He's going to be talking about Windbelt. This is like

an awesome in the coolness factor. So, without further ado.

>> FRAYNE: Thanks Kyle. Really excited to--is this too loud? Okay. I'm really excited to

be here today. I was at a talk a few months ago and there's a--I don't know, [INDISTINCT]

at his talk but--he was--he's a professor at Harvard who's doing microbial fuel cells.

Basically, turning chicken crap into electricity, you know, the coolest thing in the world and

I said, "Wow, peter how's that going?" And he said, "It's going pretty well, I'm giving

a talk at Google." So--so I'm really, really excited to be here. The company I'm going

to be talking about and the technology we're going to be talking about today falls under

my start-up which is humdinger, wind energy. And our focus is a new type of wind generator

which is the first viable non-turbine alternative to turbine based systems. And I'll dive right

in, in a few minutes into the technology itself and let you guys kind of poke holes in it

and ask questions and what not. But I wanted to warn you that my goal in coming to this

talk is two-fold; one is to talk about the technology, it's called the Windbelt--I'll

show you a little demo and to get your feedback--because it's an early stage technology that's really

just starting to crawl out of the water onto land, so any inputs most appreciated. But

my second goal is to talk a little bit about this design and invention movement. It's sort

of where humdinger wind energy came out of and where the technology behind our company

came from, and that's focusing on technologies developed, specifically, for developing countries.

And then seeing how--the interesting thing that's happening is this field of appropriate

technology or design for developing countries is changing. It's no longer the technology

that's in Uncle Neds, you know, workshop in the backwoods of, you know, Wisconsin--hope

no one is from Wisconsin--but it--it's changing into the most cutting-edge technology because

when you give yourself the most difficult constraints in the world which you often find

in developing countries, sometimes, and other folks are finding a lot of times that yields

new patentable technologies which can have play in markets other than the developing

countries. So, I'll get into that at the end while you're held hostage here. But just jumping

right into it, so, first something you guys know--what is this? No I'm kidding--it's a

wind power up to date is--it can be summarized by a few words, something that spins, and

I don't mean that in a derogatory way, that's just the way it is. You know, you go back,

you know, 2000 years to look at when wind power was first starting to be harnessed.

And you see things, you know, you see spinning windmills that would pound grain and then

a little bit later you would see spinning windmills that would pump water, and more

recently in the last hundred years, there has been a lot of research into wind turbines

that spin, focus in a large area of wind to a small gear box, spin up some magnetics and

some coils and what not, and then get efficient electrical output that way. That's great,

and that works really well on the very large scale when you have, you know, a vast area

of wind that you're concentrating down, but when you start to scale down wind power to

the sub 100 watt field, that turbine technology, that focus on rotational systems no longer

is--no longer is viable and that's why there's nothing on the market presently in wind power,

in these very small, you know, sub 100 watt ranges. You might discount that and say, "Well,

who cares about sub 100 watt." But if you look at portable text, a heat--a very large

percentage by energy, about 7 or 8% I believe, of the PV Market in the world are these--are

these very, very small scale energy uses for powering all sorts of small scale apps. Wind

power just doesn't have that for variety of reasons. When you scale down a wind turbine

the loss--the percentage of losses you get in your bearings becomes a higher percentage

of your overall power output. You don't have the same, you know, the same angular momentum

that you have on the very large scale. So the dynamics changed a lot. So that's why

no one has been successful at scaling down wind turbines. So, the way that I got into

this and what lead to the formation of humdinger wind energy was a series of--a group of new

constraints. And just to give you some background, this is a shot taken from the roof where we

were installing some solar panels from BP at a fishing village in Haiti, Petite Anse

and I've done some work there for the last 4 or 5 years, it's a group out of MIT that

works with a few different organizations in Haiti. We were doing things like converting

agricultural waste, such as, what's left over after you squeeze a sugar-- after you squeeze

the juice out of sugarcane converting that into cooking charcoal with very low cost technologies

focusing on things like solar water disinfection. While I was there, I also realized which a

lot of people--which a lot of other folks have realized as well, that kerosene lighting

is the predominant form of lighting for a lot of homes, and when you use kerosene there's--kerosene

is an outdated fuel for lighting, you know, to say the least, it's inefficient in terms

of energy input and light you get out, but it's also dangerous, hazardous and costly.

You know, you can spend 5 to 10 dollars a month on kerosene fuel just for a couple of

lamps. So, all these things combined lead me to--want to focus on a system that all

in, these are my constraints, that all in would cost about 10 dollars, provide power

to a couple of light LEDs. You might have read a lot of groups coming out of Stanford

and MIT and what not that are forming start-up setter looking at how to displace kerosene

with white LEDs. The problem is there's a missing component to their system and that's

the very micro scale power component. So my goal is to design a wind generator that would

contribute to the system, the system all in, including wind generator batteries, power

conditioning unit and a couple of white LEDs that would be around 10 dollars cost. I tried

to do that with turbines and it turned out to be way, way off by a few orders of magnitude.

So, that forced this new invention called the Windbelt. And basically, the kind of the--the,

I guess our motto at humdinger is that "Harder problems make for better--better inventions."

So by giving yourself really difficult constraints you can come up with something new that maybe

you couldn't come up with if you, you know, didn't have the type costs constraint that--that

you would have in this case in Haiti. Some of those constraints, just to run through

them, like I was saying, whole system--that whole lighting system all in one the--or about

ten dollars--let me just see this. Let's get a look at the time. All system all in about

10 dollars, so the wind generator component of that would be about 5 dollars max cost;

can be manufactured in Haiti--that was another constraint. It's very difficult--those panels,

that picture that was taken off the roof with those solar panels, those panels took about

two years to get into Haiti. They got stolen in the port, we were waiting by the panels

and were covered in a blanket and someone--before we hopped on a little paddle hopper to get

to Petite Anse--pulled back the blanket and it turned out someone had switched the panels

for a table. So, we got them back, but needless to say it would be good if there was an energy

system that could be manufactured in developing countries. And I'm going to get to some of

the, you know, I'm focusing initially on where this technology came from, but I'm going to

get to where I think it can go and there's a lot of other markets in wealthy countries

like the U.S., you know, countries in the EU, Japan that can benefit from this technology

as well. But, you know, just keeping on target here, another set of constraints was no specialized

materials. I didn't want a system, like a solar panel, nothing against solar panels

at all, but I didn't want a system that needed to have a silicon processing infrastructure

built up or have to have a special material imported. It's just that--it would make it

easier to get the product off the ground. If magnets were necessary for this wind generator,

they needed to be small. There's a lot of import restrictions on larger size magnets

that you would use for a traditional sort of home brew wind system. And one of my friends

in Guatemala was telling me he can't get the--he can't get these large super magnets imported

in at all. So you need a ma--you need a set of magnets that small enough that produces

a small enough magnetic field that you can easily case it in which is the steel case

and then ship it without any import restrictions, and easy to repair and improve. Part of the

objective was to design a technology that would be, you know, viable when it hit the

markets, but would be able to be transparent enough and easy enough to fix and easy enough

to improve that the technology could be developed, kind of in-house, that is to say engineers

and inventors in Haiti could improve the technology, sort of going for the open source hardware

idea, but with power. So--oh the final constraint was no--I wanted to minimize a grinding in

wearable parts, this is, you know, basic fundamental principle that I think everyone tries to achieve.

So I really wanted to eliminate any bearings in the system because when you're down at

this sort of small scale power levels that power things like LED lights and radios and

charged cell phones, you need pretty expensive bearings, you know, air bearings to make a

viable system. I didn't want to deal with that, too expensive, difficult to repair,

difficult to import. So that was another constraint. All these things lead up to forming an invention

that, you know, in a caricature looks more like this, a stringed instrument or the vibrating

bow of a musical instrument, you could say. So, as opposed to wind turbines which are

basically a big rotating airplane wing, you know big rotating air foil. The technology

that we came up with, after looking at those constraints, looked more like the vibrating

bow of a violin, let's say. So, what do I really mean by that? What I really mean is

that we're focusing on a different phenomenon with this new technology. Lifting drag is

what governs, sort of the operation of an airplane or a turbine, but there's a lot of

other aerodynamic phenomenon out there that you can tap. The one that we ended up tapping

looks pretty familiar I think to engineers and anyone who's gone through middle school

in the States, I think. And that's the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, the effect that ripped apart--this

bridge is called aeroelastic flutter, sort of a positive feedback loop of competing forces

of lift versus the tension forces in the bridge. Usually, you try to minimize or eliminate

aeroelastic flutter from any aerodynamic or structure or structural system. So there's

a lot of work that's been, that's gone into how to eliminate aeroelastic flutter. But

if there was a way that you could control the forces involved and control that effect

and harness it for energy output, then that would be a viable alternative to, you know,

lift and drag over an airfoil. You know, wind powers a few things; we are talking about

it before the talk, I see wind power a few things, three main goals; one, you have to

collect it--just like a magnifying lens kind of, you know, there's a new solar panels that

are kind of which--it have optics that focus in a larger area of sun into a very small

high efficiency, a little PV, a panel of sorts. I don't even know if they're--yes PV panel

of sorts. The goal for wind power is the same, you want to focus in a large area of wind

into a smaller area then usually you have to do something with making that small area

move at a high enough frequency that you could get a--efficient electrical output from magnets

moving past coils by and large. And then, the third thing is you need to condition that

power. What the wind belt does--what this new technology does is it, it looks at new

ways to tackle one and a little bit of two, you know, how to concentrate in an area of

wind for efficient electrical output and different sorts of configurations of magnetics and coils.

And we did have to make some very inexpensive power conditioning units to take care of our

cost constraints, but a--but that wasn't the main focus. Just keeping an eye on the time.

And if there's any questions just holler them out during the talk and we can get more down

to it at the end. And--okay, so, that was just to remind me that wanted to--not wait

too long to show you the demo because that will kind of give you a better idea of what

it is I'm talking about and I won't be so vague. I wanted to give you a little bit of

a background of where this came from so that you'll understand where I think it can go,

and also so that you'll understand why it's so different from other wind systems out there.

So, just to stop any--the comments I get most from engineers is, "Oh that's great, you can

charge a cell phone or you can power a couple of LEDs but you're pulling in 70 Watts into

your fan and you're getting out of fraction of a Watt." That is true but it is not my

fault that the fan is inefficient. There's about 3 to 5 Watts of power coming out in

this large cross section at about 10 or 11 miles per hour which is what the demo is I'm

going to show you right now, and we're cutting a sliver of that. So, efficiency all in ends

up being around 10%, you know, when you take into account of losses through the power conditioning

unit into a match load. So, just to stop that question in its track, but feel free to ask

me if that doesn't convince you. So--so this is just a first demo of a couple--so this

is the show that this system which again it's just a demo system, but, that this system

hit those constraints. A couple of white LEDs, you know, just to show you there's no magic

going on here, show you that it works at a few different speed. This is around 11 miles

per hour; this is around 8 miles per hour. I'm showing you the different speed because

a comment that I get often is, "Oh wow, that's a great, you know, great idea, fine, but you

have to hit 11.2 miles per hour to get the resonance effect." But this isn't, you know,

there's resonance involved but the Tacoma Narrows Bridge was not ripped apart by the

same forces that what the opera singer blow apart, you know, the wine glass. So, it's

not that you're having the heat specific frequency, it's more of a--resonance is a kind of positive

feedback loop, too, but this is more of a positive feedback loop of competing forces.

So, that is to say you can tap a wide range of wind speeds without having to have a dynamic

tensioning system, although that would be nice. So, let me show you another demo just

to show you that it can do everything I said I could do. So, if there's any questions while

I'm doing this, feel free to shoot. >> So, what's your app air conditioning doing

right now? >> FRAYNE: So, that's the only thing I can't

talk too much about because the patent is still haven't been fully filed. But the power

conditioning unit, you know, you're getting in a very clean, hazy input and you need to

do a few things. You need to rectify and you need a boost. Typically, you would do that

with something, you know like a boost converter, you know, in combination with, you know, typical

bridge rectifier. The cost was too high for those two things combined and the losses were

too great, so we have--so all I can say, especially since this is on tape, is--that there's a

few components that you could pull out of, you know, any old radio that are in the power

condition unit and quantity cost is probably somewhere around, you know, 25 cents or 50

cents, so. They're standard components, no kind of silicon components in there.

>> What wind range does this unit operate at?

>> FRAYNE: This unit operates at between around 4 miles per hour when it starts to put out

power to around 14. Actually this one probably to around 12 or 13, but we've had systems

that worked in that range. After 14 it's not that your system just kind of falls over and

dies, it starts to hiccup and go ahead of itself and what we're finding as we--as I

look at kind of larger scale systems is that that sort of a function of this particular

size. Working on systems now with this effect seems to give increase in power levels through

a wider range of wind speeds. >> So, if you changed--so what a--in--on the

table there is vibrating, is it that slim bar across the top?

>> FRAYNE: It's--no, it's actually just--and you can get a closer look afterwards, but,

it's just this band here. It's a band of, it's kind of a--it's a miler coded tap and

it's a very, very, very primitive, sort of composite material that this very commodity,

you can use it for things like, the edging of kites.

>> And as you change the wind speed, does that change the vibration frequency or does

it change the [INDISTINCT]… >> FRAYNE: It does, it does change. Mostly

the amplitude but the frequency changes by a few hertz.

>> Alright. >> FRAYNE: It's going about a hundred hertz

now, so, that's why it's giving some efficient output. This is to show you that I could do--do

the cycle of charging a lithium ion battery in a phone. It doesn't--it would take a long

time for this particular scale to fully charge up the phone. I don't know if you could tell

the difference as I was talking over it. But the initial start up is very difficult for

a system that's as gossamer as this to do. So, it took a while to be able to design a

system that could actually get over that initial part of the charge cycle. Then one more--and

keep shooting out questions as I--as I do this.

>> How long would it take to charge a typical cell phone?

>> FRAYNE: Off of this system right here? Like--like a week. But we've charged it up,

you know, we've let it run for a few hours and have made, you know, half an hour's worth

of calls, so, it's a more of a demo. >> What happens if it's rotated a bit?

>> FRAYNE: Oh yes. Okay. I can show you that. Let me show you that right after this one,

but it works--it's the same sort of [INDISTINCT] fall off that you would get from any changing

cross-section approximately. So, you know, wind turbine you get that kind of fall off

as your cross-section changes similarly with this system. But I'll show you [INDISTINCT].

So, this is a crank radio only because crank radios require very little power. This Meyer

may not work, I haven't tested it--this is at the very edge--powering a speaker that

people can hear is at the very edge of what this system can do, but--I figured what the

heck. Okay. Okay. So it was just like that because it's like, you know, literary showing,

you know, that we're hitting about four and a half bolts to replace the few double A's.

So, there's that one, you know, I'm not going to get into too much the business side because

I know this is a tech talk so that's why I'm just kind of, not too worried about screwing

around with the demo here with you because--so I hope you don't mind but--so let me show

you this. So--so I don't know if you all can see the LED there. The system is on its last

legs, this is the last demo it has to go through, it's kind of--been around the States a dozen

times, so, the baggage handlers haven't been kind. I have a big note that says, "This is

an experimental wind generator." But then, I opened it anyway, I think that makes them

open it. So, this is to show you that unlike turbine--most turbine based system this can

take, you know, pretty smooth laminar flow which this sort of--this is pretty, pretty

rough and tumble, but, it can also take really, really screwed up non-laminar flow from my

breathe. So, I don't know if everyone can see that, but, that's just--that part of the

demo. So, if you're interested after the talk, I can show you one of the--these are all sorts

of the developing country applications and after the talk I can show you, if you're interested,

kind of on the side how this system powers a wireless sensory node which is one of the

key, first kind of killer apps for the wind belt in wealthy countries. Namely systems

that you could have--imagine a peeling stick flat wind belt that was about yay long, about

yay wide and about yay high. That would put out, you know, just a mille watt of power,

but then you could--that's enough combined with a buffer, like a capacitor to power up

a lot of wireless sensors that do things like report temperature, report humidity, things

that you need in any smart building to be able to make a more intelligent heating and

ventilation system because that's were about 50% of a building's energy flow. So, to make

any sort of lead certified or green building, you need to know what's flowing through the

ducts. Right now that's difficult because these sensors all require batteries and you

can imagine needing to, you know, call it Tom Cruise to crawl through the ducting system

to replace all these batteries every couple of years when you need, you know, a few hundreds

to a thousand sensors throughout the ducting of a large building. So I can show you that

afterwards, but there is a question. >> Yes. I could--I could and maybe this could

be correct or not, but I could describe this is a device that where the working fluid is

[INDISTINCT], but if you were to replace that by some--this thing [INDISTINCT] work underwater,

right? >> FRAYNE: So, I can't say that [INDISTINCT].

Our--it's--it's conceivable. The effect is still there--the thing--I have to be a little

vague, I get a lot of inquiries about whether or not aeroelastic flutter works in different

fluids such as water. My personal opinion, right now, is that there are other effects

that are maybe more viable and, you know, kind of constant flowing water. If you're

interested there's a group, I think out of Colorado maybe, called Vortex Hydro Energy

that uses vortices shedding which is basically little--little whirlpool that spin off of

a--spin off of a cylinder. And--because your water is so much denser than air, vortices

shedding, kind of makes that cylinder move up and down with the, you know, pretty good

amount of force and--you get dead spots because vortices shedding is a periodic--it--it makes

something oscillate out of periodic frequency. So you get dead spots. That's it--so I guess

what I'm saying is in air there's no other--there's no other system that competes with this sort

of model at these scales. We're about 10 times to 30 times more efficient than wind turbines

that are on the scale. So that's important. When you go in order of magnitude, in terms

of cross section that's cut, we become much less efficient, not much, much less but less

efficient than larger scale systems. But there's a recent publication about a couple of year--well

that's not recent--a couple of years ago in Nature about a small scale turbine and we're

about 10 times more efficient than that and they put out a new study and we're about 30

times more efficient than that one but--and it--and, though these two questions and then

we'll save the rest for the end. >> What is the--what last leg is it on?

>> FRAYNE: It's--I can tell that the frequency is changing a little bit.

>> That's right. What's [INDISTINCT] >> FRAYNE: Yes, I'm not exactly sure the--it

seem--we put the systems through 200 hours of operation in the lab, just kind of constantly

going through different kind of heating and cooling cycles, you know, throughout over

a period of--of a couple of months. And it seems as if the frequency stayed roughly the

same and the power output was roughly the same. With this one I can tell that there's

something out of alignments and I can hear it. So, it's not that--I think maybe there's

just some missed alignment that's happened up on that--this end.

>> What happens in a hurricane? I think, you said it was made out of miler. I think miler

will stretch unless you got some carbon fiber. >> FRAYNE: It's on miler [INDISTINCT] tap

with us. So miler alone isn't good enough. >> Yes. Right. So it's probably what's failing

here. But what happens in a hurricane? And if you want more power, do you make a lot

of little ones or do you make a bigger one? >> FRAYNE: I'll answer that at the end. And

what happens in a hurricane? I think, there going to be probably some questions about

dynamic tensioning. So, I'll buzz to the next bit just--so that's there enough time for

questions. I'm sorry I don't have a watch. I have to keep looking up there. Just to show--this

is just what I stated, you know, and if you want to look at the reference. I got a lot

of flack for people thinking that I was saying that the wind belt is 10 times more efficient

than wind turbines which would be impossible, you know, wind turbines on a large scale.

So I'm being very specific now and you can check out this citation at our website

and do the comparison for yourself. We're comparing the cross section that's cut by

the wind belt as it oscillates and tagging that against the cross-sectional, kind of

area of the wind turbines [INDISTINCT]. There's a very little data in this range for wind

turbines because a lot of the stuff that's out there, it's about a thousand times less

efficient than--than this sort of system. >> Do you have to measure the cross-section

of the entire aluminum frame because, I mean, that's going to house. . . ?

>> FRAYNE: Yes. So in--in this system now, there would be an argument for that. But I

can actually remove this top bit and there's no sort of funneling that's going on. Part

of what I've been mentioning about the strategy of Humdinger Wind Energy isn't--for long time

I didn't even mention the whole developing country aspect of it because that confuse

some people or I thought it would. Now I hope it doesn't, but the purpose--the reason I

mentioned it is because that's where the technology came from and that's why it's so different.

But that difference doesn't mean that it doesn't have applications in wealthy countries which

I believe is a powerful phenomenon, it's going to happen in a lot of other fields as well.

I mentioned one sort of application which is the small peeling stick, low peeling stick

energy harvesters instead of batteries wherever you had an airflow. There's other application

as well which I'll get to in the next slide. But the idea is, there's protectable--there's--there's

IP in this and if that IP can be licensed in wealthy countries, its still stays open-source

in developing countries just by the nature of the patent system, you know, if there is

no international worldwide stamp of approval patent--patents or by country, so there's

no reason to patent something in Haiti. So it's still open-source where, you know, I

want it to be open-source but it's protected where I think some licensing revenues can

be pulled out and then the ultimate objective, you know, through me, I'm not the only one

in the company, but the revenues that flows through me flow back to the original, you

know, objective which is this emerging economy markets. We're not a social venture, it's

a--you know hardcore, you know, regular business in Silicon Valley, but it's just something

that is an aspect to it. So that's just what I was saying. Next steps on the horizon. What

we're doing is exploring the landscape of where this technology can go. I guess--there

was a question about scaling, hopefully this answers it a little bit. I already mentioned

this very--empowering very, very micro sized system and there's really nothing else in

the game in terms of using wind power to power very small scale, sub one watt applications

and there's a lot of amount there. However the question--you know seeing the system will

also, I think get a lot people thinking and it has on what happens when you scale up a

little bit. Let's say you scale up to a 1-10 watt system. There's--based on the building

materials and we're just in initial testing for this scale, it seems as if we'll be able

to achieve around a 10 watt system and that's rated power, so it would be 10 watts at around

22 miles per hour and so basically a 1-10watt system. A 10watt system for cost building

materials around $10, if you compare that to what wind energy cost on a large scale

that beats it in terms of cost per watt. A lot of people discount this, you know, out

of hand. But when you look at the number of components that are involve in the--this Windbelt

System then I think people will start to come around and pretty soon and we hope to have

a demo model of this size scale system that hits these goals. These are good for things

like rural electrification and, you know, let's say China where there's not much solar

irradiance in certain areas because of the pollution. So your solar panel which is $5-6

per watt suddenly, when you have a hundred times less solar energy hitting that area

of the panel, becomes $500-600 per produced watt, so it becomes non-variable. But in some

of those places wind is a variable input. Also things like WiFi nodes, I know they were

trying to put up WiFi nodes in central park and they are having a big cost issue with

wiring things up there. So having these small scales systems that use wind and maybe in

combination with solar to power apps like WiFi nodes and rural electrification I think

is--is one part of the landscape. And another big part of the landscape is how big does

this thing scale up? You now, anyone who knows anything about scaling up anything knows that

you cannot make claims out of hand that something scales because the dynamics on the large scale

are different in the dynamics on the very micro scale. Turbines have found this to be

true, so similarly we may have an upstream, a kind of a battle going uphill. However,

it's unknown. We know the effect is present because it rips apart things on the large

scale. The question is can we efficiently--can we make an efficient enough generator on these

large scales to hit the price points we need to make that a variable alternative to turbines

on a large kilowatt plus scale? And that's a big open question but its part of what this

next year development is intended for. Part of the plan, part of the--the kind of non-conventional

plan is--because it's difficult to do large scale test installations in the States, partnering

with an organization--and I encourage everyone to check them out--their AIDG, Appropriate

Infrastructure Development Group out of Guatemala but also in operations in Haiti. So,

I'm not affiliated with them now but they're going to be a partner with us in exploring

how the Windbelt scales up to these large, kind of stretch across a canyon scales, and

I think we're going to get there faster and we're going to get there, not the sound like

NASA, but I think we're going to get there faster and get their cheaper than we would

with domestic resources devoted towards, you know, expert--having an R&D center in Silicon

Valley, for instance, for this large scales system. So that's one tier of the experiment.

How am I doing? Time here. Okay. So now that I've gone to the Windbelt, your going to have

to bear with me for another five minutes as I kind of poke at you about this coming design

revolution which Humdinger Wind Energy is a part of but which a lot of other folks are

starting to pioneer, and I see this as something that isn't on a lot of folks radar. So, I'm--I've--I'm

sort of the West Coast evangelist for this new design revolution as I see it. So, the

basic idea goes along with what I said at the beginning of the talk and that's that,

"Harder problems make for better inventions." The hardest problems in the world happen to

be in the developing countries by and large. They're kind of the avant-garde of the problems,

you know. Clean water, energy, all these of sorts of things are going to impact, you know,

in 10 to 20 years, and they are starting to, they won't be only be severely impacting developing

countries, they'll be impacting everybody. So the technologies that are developed now

which focus on these very difficult constraints in developing countries are going to have

cross-over. And I think they're going to have cross-over in several fields. You know, I'll

just buzz through this so there's plenty of time for questions. These are just some of

the fields that I think there haven't been the advances needed over the last 50 years

that need to happen. If you look back hundred years ago, when a lot of, the kind foundations

for the technologies we have today were made, you know, like, you know, Edison and the light

bulb in electricity and dynamos and what not. The reason those were developed is that the

entire world was a developing country, you know the entire world--every country in the

world was a developing country except for a very, very, very small tiny elite. So the

designers and inventors at that time were very well wed to the problems of the day,

where as now, about 10% of the world that does most of the design is disconnected from

the other 90% of the world. And I think what that does is it loosens, kind of the vice

grip of constraints and makes for poor design and, you know, you get to a point and you

say, "Okay, that is my constraints." And then there's this legacy effects that come into

play were an average design gets kind of carried through decades. Now what needs to happen

is that the new industry starters need to be developed, just like happened a hundred

years ago, you know, obviously I'm not talking about the internet because that's a recent

phenomenon, but besides that for things like power and what not, I think the place a lot

of this is kind going to come is from developing counties and there's going to be, as Jeff

Immelt, the CEO of GE said, "This is sort of going to be the 3rd fade--the 3rd stage

of globalization where inventions and developments in developing countries are going to affect

the developed world and why is that people don't see." I was very surprised to hear him

say that. But--just some examples of places that this revolution has already begun, I

know that everyone here I saw--I've seen all the posters for the--for the Give One Get

One, hundred dollar laptop all around Google. But what's cool to me besides that sort of

strategy of Give one Get One is the screen. So this was a technology that was developed

with very severe constraints, you know, very severe power constraints. You had to make

a laptop that was, you know, consumed the 20th or 10th to the power of a traditional

laptop. You had to make--and you know the screen consumed a lot of that--that power,

so what these guys did was--I think the inventor was expert in display technologies and I think

she's out of MIT, I'm not sure, but what she did was design pixels, regular kind of luminescing

pixels that, you know, work like a regular screen when you're in the dark. But then you

can switch it into more of an E-reader mode, kind of like an E Ink type of--it's not E

Ink's technology but an E Ink type of reflective display that doesn't consume power when it

doesn't change state and, I want that on my laptop. Buts it's in this hundred dollar laptop

and the only reason that its' there is because of this severe power constraints, and the

constraint of needing to be able to read your laptop in full sunlight. So I think that's

something that's going to cross-over and was only developed with this constraint. I'll

buzz through these other ones but it's important that this next organization, Jaipur Foot,

is super interesting. They're designing prosthetics in India that are, you know, a hundred times

less expensive than prosthetics in the States and they've developed some interesting molding

technology, using basically sand in a vacuum, sort of a vacuum bag. They pull the air out

and you can make, kind of, instincts molds of a person's, you know, person's limb that--that's

been amputated, and then you can make this customize prosthetics. Importantly, even more

importantly than the cost is they can do this in a one to two-day turnaround time, whereas

in the States, you know, someone coming back from Iraq has to wait six months to get a

prosthetic limb, and this is something I see possibly crossing-over as well. You can--they

just want a tech award so you could read about them there. You know, inexpensive cars because

of the cost constraints in India, phase-change incubation, Amy Smith out of MIT has developed

a new way of incubating biological samples using a phase-change material which is basically

a wax that you heat up to, you know, you put it a wax, a little balls of wax out in the

sun. It melts the wax, so by melting the wax, you're absorbing the sun energy or you can

boil them, as the wax starts to re-solidify, it lets out the temperature at its phase change

to around 37 degree Celsius and you can get constant temperature incubation for things

like water and blood samples. This is something that I think it's going to affect medical

technology in a lot of realms and again developed with these constraints of not being to have

a $2000 incubator that you need to recharge, you know, before you go out into the field.

And the Motophone is pretty cool; it uses, you know, kind of an E Ink style display.

I think they're $30 retail, the power it can--I don't remember exactly what the duration is

but it's something like 200 hours of--I don't know, you have to look it up but it's almost

in order magnitude more talk time and standby time than the phones that you have in your

pocket right now, just because, again, of power constraints, you know, you go to the

city once and recharge your phone, you don't want to have to keep going. So--don't quote

me on that, that order of magnitude greater but it's substantial. I guess that's it, you

know--I'll go in about right. So I guess that's it but, you know, more than the technology

itself which, you know, I'm a technology guy so I love the technology of the Windbelt and

these other technologies. But more important than that is that there's this new system

of invention and design that I think is coming to a head in which a lot of the world's problems,

including energy in clean water and poverty are all going to coalesce into a lot of designers

and a lot of inventors who focus on the problems in developing countries with the outcome being,

that those aren't only a social charitable venture that those yield patentable/protectable

technologies in the developed, you know, wealthy world that can then form industries the world

over, not just developing countries. So, thanks. Any questions?

>> For the big scale [INDISTINCT] >> FRAYNE: Yes. When you--you know on a large

scale it makes no sense to have a structure that beams, you know, you don't have to hold

the mountains from coming closer to one another. So, in that case your cost reduced by eliminating

the structure which in this case is, you know, about half the cost, you know, obviously wouldn't

be made out of aluminum, but--but yes, I guess the answer to the question is on the large

scale the way to do it, I believe, is by grabbing on to existing structures whether that's,

you know, mountains or whether that's, you know, components of the bridge or architectural

components, you know, like in a frame of a window, lets say, and doing it that way. So,

but again I have to stress that there's been no testing on this vast scales so, all of

this is, you know, it's a postulation that it can scale up, but

>> [INDISTINCT] >> FRAYNE: It wouldn't, so if you did that

you'd get caught in more of a torsion mode which is way, way, you know, a hundred or

a thousand times less energy output than this mode where you have this flutter of the membrane

in the middle, and then that concentrates that sort of motion across this larger cross-section

to the most massive part of the system which were kind of those button magnets. So, it

works kind of like a flexible lever, you could say. So instead of getting your high frequency

oscillation of a magnet which reference to some coils by using a gearbox, instead you

use--so instead of gears as your simple machine example, using leverage and getting that,

you know, high frequency output that way. >> [INDISTINCT] really not audible but its

generating energy that's [INDISTINCT] a little bit that's great. I think when you scale that

up, you can run into issues of sound being generated by the

>> FRAYNE: That's thethat's one of the primary technical hurdles as it scales up,

definitely. And there's been--I've scaled it up to around, you know, human size generator

which is kind of in this, you know, 10 to 20 watt size system and sometimes I can design

the system to produce low levels of sound, but sometimes it's loud. So, you know, noise

is lost energy. So the hypothesis is that with--with more attention to how the membranes

actually designed and tensioned then we can get around that problem, but it's a definite

concern. I think there's another and then I'll get back.

>> One reason frequency goes down is you could [INDISTINCT]

>> FRAYNE: Approximately true. >> If we have bridge size [INDISTINCT]

>> FRAYNE: So I suggest that--this prototype was designed months, months, months ago. So

the new systems we're working on are--have a whole different dynamic than this system.

You know, this is one of the least efficient configurations for coils with reference to

magnets but it works at the wind speeds I needed it to work at. When you can have cut

in at eight miles per hour, instead of four miles per hour cut in, you know, when you

can have you wind generator starting to produce power at eight miles per hour then you can

use a lot of other approaches, you know, cord coils and what not, arranged differently and

then your tension changes. So--but in general that is probably a true statement.

>> You can also change the aerodynamics of the belt itself, right? I mean, just like

a wing is different than a flat piece of paper when you want to [INDISTINCT]. Have you guys

investigated that, like. . .? >> FRAYNE: I have not investigated it but

it's definitely something that has been on the radar for a few years. These had been

in development for about four years, you know, yes?

>> [INDISTINCT] >> FRAYNE: Yes. There's a self-tensioning

guitar that a guy was talk--telling me about, so, you know, that's--but designing a different

sort of airfoil which is I think what you are asking, having the membrane have that

sort of different cross-section is definitely an area I think that need--that we're going

to investigate and I think some other folks once this catches on, will investigators as

well. >> You are--are you sticking with a [INDISTINCT]

material through your other experiments or do you fool around with other materials.

>> FRAYNE: Yes. We fool around. The thing is it's very much in an Edison mode right

now where it's very empirical--everything's empirically determined because this phenomenon,

even though it appears simple, is extremely difficult to model. So, there's still debate

actually about why did the Tacoma Narrows Bridge got ripped apart, if you can believe

it. But--it's extremely hard to model, so we just have to try a lot of things and that's

why I think doing this experiment in Guatemala is a way that we can actually be able to tap

a wider range of field and get the landscape clear more quickly, and now I'll comeback.

>> What about the [INDISTINCT] around. >> FRAYNE: Oh yes. Then this is--for this

scale--for this particular scale in this arrangement of coils, this is what I find the work the

best and if you diverge from that, even a milliliter, it changes the dynamics a lot.

A milliliter is pretty big but--everything is handmade, so everything is but then a millimeter.

>> So to what extent or do you even know, does the smoothness and surface composition

of the fluttering material interact with wind and the speed, the frequency and all that.

So, this model is probably pretty smooth, right? But should--I would imagine that that

the same geometry with the different surface texture would probably behave differently.

>> FRAYNE: [INDISTINCT] smooth on the top where the miler is coding the [INDISTINCT].

So different materials do perform differently and we haven't quantified--we don't have--we

don't exactly know why that is so, I mean, you jus--you get different flows along, you

know, very, very smooth material. You're going to get more drag than you would get for, a

kind of a very, unlike what's kind of micro bumps. So, all of these things have to come

into play, I mean, what's important to realize is, even though I think this development can

happen on a rapid scale, turbines have been in development for a hundred years. The hope

is that, this can be, you know, in order of magnitude, less development time than that,

but it's still crawling out of the water onto land. So I'm all—-most of these questions

are unanswered and the reason for the talk is to kind get those questions going and get

people think--how much--how's the time, am I interrupting another talk?

>> Nothing [INDISTINCT] >> FRAYNE: Okay, okay, yes?

>> So you--you've seen this [INDISTINCT] that--they're usually vertical and they spin sort of this

way and there's [INDISTINCT] configurations but they're-—they vanish is that if the

wind changes comes any direction [INDISTINCT] work. Now if you have one of these things,

which one can make it movable [INDISTINCT] to wind. And it seems to me that there'd be

a cross-over point where, if you--there's got to be a cross-over point where if you

scaled this up to some number of watts, right? And then you look at of one of those small--micro--small

turbines like a, you know, the vertical spinning whole thing instead of [INDISTINCT]. Must

be a cross-over point where that might start to look good to that effect, might be looking

on the 3rd and whatever you could do it first. >> FRAYNE: Yes. You know, again, it's not

only the--it's all about the cost to me because it doesn't, you know, if your out in the field

somewhere it's--this could count, this particular generator can't take flow from both directions

but the larger scale generators can take flow from both directions. So you would get a drag--if

you didn't have two coils perpendicular, you would have to have some sort of rotating system

but… >> [INDISTINCT] put up generator on the top.

>> FRAYNE: Conceivably, but if the system are so cheap to make adding that, you know,

bearing and ability to rotate on the small scale, you know, the 10 watt scale, I believe

it's going to be more expensive than having two belts. However, there is going to be this

cross-over where it becomes--it makes more sense to invest in that sort of--that sort

of system vanes, and I think you are next. >> Can you say a little about where the cost

breakdown is? You know, what fraction is the magnets versus…?

>> FRAYNE: Oh yes. On this scale each magnet costs about five cents quantity. The coils

not wound but, you know, the cost of the copper in the coils in wire form is around 30 cents

each roughly. This would be made at of some sort of, you know, probably ABS or glass filled

polyethylene and for this much of that material, it's less than a dollar in quantity. And then

the material itself is probably a penny. I mean, this is some of the material here and

you can buy it in rolls. So the only--the part of the system that could break is actually

the least costly. So that's--I think a good way to do to design a system, particularly

for environments where can replace that component. >> So, I mean, on that scale it's actually

very easy to adjust for a direction. You just to have a fin on the end that sticks out,

and hang it from a wire. >> FRAYNE: Yes.

>> I mean it's very simple. >> FRAYNE: Yes. And I think people are going

to do that. That option, conceivably. >> Yes. Let gravity deal with the foundation,

right? Well. . . >> FRAYNE: It's a good idea.

>> What about [INDISTINCT] falls into it? >> FRAYNE: I mean, following the works for,

I mean, it will work for a wind turbine, too. But the problem there is--you know, we're--you

have to build a stronger structure to handle the drag that is forcing back that funneling.

With this system one of the advantages is that you don't have a big spinning dangerous

mass. It's so--I don't have anything against turbines at all, I think, you know, people

should get them and I am glad they're working on the large scale, but you do have a rotating

mass which you have to account for when you build the structure that that turbine's on,

whereas in this your mass is, you know, very, very, very small. The most massive parts is

close to the base, so, you know, you can have a bamboo pole, a thin piece of bamboo that

holds up this system as opposed to a proper tower you would need for alternatives. And

adding a funnel kind of reduces that benefit, however, I'm sure people are going to look

at it. >> Is it [INDISTINCT] some function of the

mass… >> FRAYNE: Of the belt itself?

>> Of the magnets and the wire and the [INDISTINCT]. I mean you're getting power from moving parts,

right? >> Oh yes. It's definitely--it's a function

of the frequency, you know, roughly the mass because the mass affects the field produced

by a permanent magnet and the area that, you know, that field can influence and those three

factors. Like any generator, that's what determines how much output you'll get. So, what we're

looking at is kind of how to focus in an area of wind to make those magnets move, which

is the challenge for all generators. >> Okay, this isn't very much, in the event

that you do channel a little bit wind, you can get a slight [INDISTINCT] effect, so you'll

get a little bit better efficiency out of [INDISTINCT] wind.

>> FRAYNE: No. I think that--so there's vast, you know, that idea, I think there's vast

improvements to be made and I'm excited to see how fast this technology develops. Next.

>> We're running out of time [INDISTINCT] >> FRAYNE: Sure, thanks.

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