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we begin tonight with the death in

prison of a former friend of Donald

Trump's a man who Donald Trump called a

terrific guy who with Donald Trump's

full approval liked girls who in Donald

Trump's words were quote on the younger

side it took the death of an accused

child rapist and sex trafficker and

friend of presidents Trump and Clinton

to unite the Democrats and Republicans

on the House Judiciary Committee in the

search for information from Donald Trump

and William bars Justice Department

Chairman Jerry Nadler and the ranking

Republican member of the House Judiciary

Committee Doug Collins co-signed a

letter tonight to the Justice Department

with 23 questions about the death of

Jeffrey Epstein quote from an apparent

suicide on the morning of August 10th

2019 while in your custody at the

Metropolitan Correctional Center in New

York the letter is addressed to Hugh

Hurwitz the Acting Director of the

Bureau of Prisons

which is an agency in the Justice

Department under attorney general

william bars control hue her wits is a

lifetime government bureaucrat whose

career began in Republican presidential

administrations but has also included

Democratic administrations he started as

a low-level assistant from the Bureau of


the year after he graduated from college

he eventually became a lawyer spent some

time in private law practice returned to

the Bureau of Prisons in 1997 and a

technical capacity as an assistant chief

for construction during the Bush

administration he worked in a technical

job in the Food and Drug Administration

later became the FDA's IT guy moved on

to another technical job having nothing

to do with policy in the Department of

Education during the Obama

administration he joined NASA and the

inspector general's office and returned

to the Bureau of Prisons in 2015 as an

assistant director may 18th of 2018

Attorney General Jeff Sessions appointed

Hugh her wits the Acting Director of the

Bureau of Prisons and because this is

the Trump administration he is still the

Acting Director over a year later when

you see Hugh Hurwitz testified to the

House Judiciary Committee both under

oath and under pressure

as he most surely will you will be

seeing the classic government technocrat

you will not be seeing someone who has

ever run a prison or a jail himself he

has never had one day of experience

working in a prison or a jail it is

possible he has never met an inmate but

it was his job to keep Jeffrey Epstein


it was also william bars job to keep

Jeffrey Epstein alive an attorney

general bar said today in effect don't

blame me Attorney General bar claimed to

be quote appalled and angry those are

his words about the death of Jeffrey

Epstein and he made it very clear that

Hugh Hurwitz is in line to take the fall

for this one we are now learning of

serious irregularities at this facility

that are deeply concerning and demand a

thorough investigation so William Bar is

clearly going to point downward and

blame Hugh Hurwitz or someone lower down

the chain of command at the federal

correction Center in New York where

Jeffrey Epstein died maybe the bar

investigation will ultimately point the

finger at the unionized guards who fail

to keep Jeffrey Epstein alive or the

chief psychologist at the Correctional

Center who was supposed to be in charge

of the suicide watch of Jeffrey Epstein

and the aftermath of the suicide watch

of Jeffrey Epstein after Jeffrey Epstein

reportedly tried to kill himself last

month he was placed on suicide watch for

some period of time and then reportedly

taken off suicide watch the Federal

Bureau of Prisons rules for suicide

watches were written in 2007 when Hugh

Hurwitz was working at the Department of

Education it's entirely possible

Hewitt's had no idea what those rules

were until he got the Judiciary

Committee's letter tonight one of the

rules says once an inmate has been

placed on watch the watch may not be

terminated under any circumstance

without the program coordinator or

designee performing a face-to-face

evaluation only the program coordinator

will have the authority to remove and

from suicide watch the program

coordinator is usually the prison's

chief psychologist question 12 of the

Judiciary Committee's letter to the

Bureau of Prisons is does mcc New York

have such a program coordinator did he

or she authorized the removal of mr.

Epstein from suicide watch if not who

did question 13 did the program

coordinator consult with anyone else in

making this determination if so who

question 14 was the termination of mr.

Epstein suicide watch by the official

who made such determination discussed

with or directed by any supervisory

personnel or leadership of the Bureau of

Prisons or any Department of Justice

personnel or executive branch personnel

outside of the Bureau of Prisons

question 15 who at the Bureau of Prisons

Department of Justice and elsewhere in

the executive branch was notified of the

termination of mr. epsteen suicide watch

and when the Trump White House is the

craziest White House in history it is

the most reckless group of people who

have ever worked in a White House and

the President himself is the most

reckless of them all the Judiciary

Committee's letter signed by the top

Democrat and the top Republican on the

committee is asking if anyone in the

Trump White House was involved or aware

of the removal of the suicide watch of

Jeffrey Epstein that's what's in

question number 14 was the termination

with or directed by any supervisory

personnel or leadership of the Bureau of

Prisons or any Department of Justice

personnel or executive branch personnel

was William Barr involved was Donald

Trump involved that is what is in

question number 14 and the House

Judiciary Committee is going to get

answers to these questions to all of

these questions including please provide

information pertaining to the individual

correctional officers who were

responsible for monitoring mr. Epstein

on August 9th and August 10th

specifically with respect to how long

they had been on their ships at the time

mr. Epstein had been found unresponsive

in his cell question 17 if mr. Epstein

was removed from suicide watch what

precautions were put in place to help

prevent the possibility of self-injury

for mr. Epstein given that he was

transitioning from suicide watch were

there any steps taken to remove possible

implements of self-injury question 20

where any video surveillance cameras

placed in or near mr. Epstein cell do

recordings show the circumstances that

led to mr. Epstein s death or the

presence of any other person during this

time period the bipartisan letter sent

by the House Judiciary Committee to the

acting director of the Bureau of Prisons

says the apparent suicide of this high

profile and if allegations are proven to

be accurate particularly reprehensible

individual while in the federal

government's custody demonstrates severe

miscarriages of and deficiencies in

inmate protocol and has allowed the

deceased to ultimately evade facing

justice any victims of mr. Epstein's

actions will forever be denied proper

recourse the competency and rigor of our

criminal justice system has been marred

by this apparent oversight leading off

our discussions night mui wrote a former

assistant US attorney in the Southern

District of New York she is an MSNBC

legal contributor in John Holliman

national affairs analyst for NBC News

and MSNBC he is co-host and executive

producer of Showtime's the circus and

meaning you know these facilities down

there in lower Manhattan

a former US attorney tweeted over the

weekend that surely there is video that

will tell us

thing if not everything about this well

and there will be video that will be

part of the puzzle that they're gonna

have to piece together there won't be

video in the cell because of privacy

rights but there will be video from the

hallways there will be they will be I'm

sure they're already looking somebody is

going through whatever video can be gone

through they are looking at who did

Epstein speak to who did he have phone

calls with who did he have contact with

in the time between when he was taken

off suicide watch and kills himself

presumably you know every personnel

everyone who works there is going to be

interviewed and and questioned

separately and carefully but the real

problem here in my mind is we need

answers and we need both the public and

the victims to trust the answers that we

get and with build bar at the home and

doing what he's already doing which is

spinning this like he did with the

Muller report how can anybody trust it

he had he had been recused he Unruh

cused himself to take responsibility

over the southern district investigation

and now he's already dis claiming

responsibility as you said and I think

for anyone to have faith in what the

findings are which are so important to

the victims and the justice system as a


dobar must recuse himself John there is

an established Republican Congressional

view of responsibility for department

heads in situations like this especially

if it's the head of the State Department

and the death occurs in Benghazi all of

that was blamed on Hillary Clinton by

House Republicans here is William bar at

the top of his department but this

letter tonight co-signed by the leading

Republican on the House Judiciary

Committee is asking all the right

questions yes just Laura hypocrisy maybe

to you Laura something's I said this is

not a new thing for this Republican

Party in this age of Donald Trump to

cast aside all prior alleged convictions

or commitments to how responsibility

works where the

stops in situations like this I think

it's you know you've seen the the the

cognitive dissonance says you watched

before the the Epstein event you know on

Friday you had the names of some

prominent people who were implicated in

the Epstein thing you saw bill

Richardson's name you saw George

Mitchell's name come out and you saw

Donald Trump's name and you saw Bill

Clinton's name and yet over the weekend

you have the Trump administration people

around Donald Trump basically saying you

know pointing to the Bill Clinton

pointing to Bill Clinton is the

president's stoke this conspiracy theory

by retweeting someone who claimed that

this is you know part of the Clinton

body count yet it is the case that both

of them are work for known historical

consorts of of Jeffrey Epstein and only

one of them is the current president

United States whose justice department

runs the federal prison system so I'm

not engaging in any conspiracy theories

just to say if you were going to start

asking about culpability and you're

going to start pointing fingers the the

place to start looking is with the

government that runs that facility and

that goes all the way up to this

Attorney General this Attorney General

has shown over and over again that he is

in this game first and foremost to

protect Donald Trump above all maybe to

go back to your point about the barn on

recusal because the the investigations

in the Southern District do cross lines

with Donald Trump here and there and

here is someone who is a former friend

of Donald Trump's ironically oddly given

his job his first job in New York at a

private high school in New York by

William bars father William bar bars

father as the headmaster of school

actually hired this guy that's plenty of

grounds right there for bar to refer to

recuse himself but he didn't as you

pointed out in this case which means he

left himself in charge fully of the

incarceration of Jeffrey Epstein what

efforts did he personally make with that

facility explaining to them the

importance of this prisoner exactly I

mean he's now saying I mean in his in

his statement today the woman he was

speaking he said you know this is such

an important case if you

or that important of a case a case that

you said you know what I'm so invested

in this case that I am I'm gonna put

aside those may be apparent conflicts

that people might have issue with

because I want to oversee this I want to

make sure it's done right this time

around well then you should have said

from the top down whatever resources you

need to protect this man the same way

they did with El Chapo right I mean it's

not like they aren't capable of doing it

whatever resources you need I will get

you I'm not saying there aren't systemic

problems on a day-to-day basis and the

MCC MDC other prisons that maybe will

come to light as a result of this and be

addressed but he could have reached out

he should have reached out especially

given his position and said I am giving

you the resources you need to make sure

Jeffrey Epstein goes to trial and sees

that day of trial and so John as Mimi

said in the first thing was named

William Bart is already spinning this he

goes out there today and goes way beyond

anything we know in the news reports and

says serious irregularities in this

facility which he supervises which is

under his jurisdiction and and that

again is is is William bar stepping out

ahead of what we know before we're

allowed to know and then not giving us

any hint of what an irregularity is

finally enough we've seen bill barr do

this before step out ahead of everything

we know and cast events in a certain way

spin them in a certain way it's part of

a troubling pattern I think I'm the part

of the Attorney General and I will say

you know we don't know when he says

they're troubling irregularities we do

not know if he's talking historically we

do not know if he's really just

reporting specifically to this case

there clearly are some irregularities

with respect to this case the question

is whether he's casting an aspersion

that he's tried to now claim that these

problems have been systemic and have

gone on for years and years and so

although you know it happened on my

watch I can't be responsible for

problems that have been festering in

this prison for many many decades we'll

see if that's where we go but don't be

surprised if that is where we go but

maybe an ear challenge reporting that

this means that prosecutors will

probably start concentrating more

heavily on the financial life of Jeffrey

Epstein since they can't prosecute any

of these criminal cases against them we

have another report in The New York

Times tonight from James Stewart

he reports of an interview he had with

Epstein last year where Epstein says two

points to a picture saying that's MBS

referring to Mohammed bin Salman the

Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia the Crown

Prince had visited him many times and

they spoke often mr. Epstein said maybe

if that's true that's just one indicator

of the kinds of people who may be

exposed in the continuing of this

investigation yeah look when the fact

that Geoffrey Berman the US attorney in

the Southern District of New York put

out a statement on a Saturday I mean

that's unusual for them to just put out

a statement at all about a case so

quickly over a weekend and and the fact

that he made that point about there

being a conspiracy and we're going to

continue investigating and we want

victims to come forward I don't think he

would have done that if there was just

sort of you know hey let's throw it up

and see what happens I mean that that

would be pretty risky on his part so

they clearly have already I think some

idea where this is going in terms of

co-conspirators whether that turns out

to be you know just seeing I can't

pronounce her name Maxwell and or other

more high-profile people I don't know

but they are going to keep pursuing this

both I think criminally and civilly in

terms of forfeiture of his assets the US

attorney said to Mimi's point on

Saturday to those brave young women who

have already come forward and to the

many others who have yet to do so let me

reiterate that we remain committed to

standing for you and our investigation

of the conduct charged in the indictment

which included a conspiracy count

remains ongoing so Jon that's the the

essence of what we know continues

conspiracies are rarely conducted a lone

conspiracy is usually involved

co-conspirators and we have some idea

about some of the people who are close

to Jeffrey Epstein miss Maxwell is one

of those people who's pointed to you

frequently it is the case I believe not

being a lawyer but having listened to a

lot of smart lawyers over the weekend

that the one positive element of this

entire thing and there are Billy or I

mean it's an obviously a really dark

turn of events but the notion that there

will now no longer be standing or the

ability to challenge the searches of all

of Jeffrey Epstein's properties of all

of his bank records that he will

have lawyers who have standing now to

fight so if there are going to be cases

brought against co-conspirators it

should they exist it should now be for a

committed prosecutor or set of

prosecutors easier to get evidence of

that conspiracy than it would have been

previously with with with Jeffrey

Epstein's lawyers fighting at every turn

and that will be I think one of the

tests of whether or not this

investigation is serious or not or are

we now going to see prosecutors and

investigators just ransacking every

element of Jeffrey Epstein's life in

order to try to find whatever as

evidence exists anyone who is complicit

whether they're a co-conspirator or just

complicit in this behavior because that

I think is what the victims are owed me

are we going to know how Jeffrey Epstein

died and why he died and who's

responsible well look the inspector

general's report I think they generally

make their findings public and they are

you know reasonably independent from

bill Barr although part of the

Department of Justice I think that we

have a good chance of knowing that the

FBI investigation and by the way I'm not

casting aspersions on the FBI agents

themselves this is about Barr overseeing

it that if it's a criminal investigation

we would only know about if they brought

criminal charges against someone I think

it's just too early to say that I think

also obviously through House Oversight

you know we will get some answers so yes

I think we will get the answers I think

it's you know probably gonna take longer

than people want which is why bill bars

should not be doing what he's doing

already which is putting out a few

little select cryptic facts with his

spin on it and pointing downward with

the blame Mimi roken gentleman thank you

both for starting us off tonight thanks

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